That's correct. I bought it several months ago with around 46k and had the major work done at 49k. My impression is that Ford cheaped out on some very inexpensive parts, namely the timing chain tensioners, and when those seals go it causes oil starvation to the valvetrain components, especially on the passenger side. A little extra engineering of the oil flow paths or a little better tensioner design could have prevented countless issues.
Another 5.4L tapping noise thread (sorry)
- Thread starter steeltoe
- Start date
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That's correct. I bought it several months ago with around 46k and had the major work done at 49k. My impression is that Ford cheaped out on some very inexpensive parts, namely the timing chain tensioners, and when those seals go it causes oil starvation to the valvetrain components, especially on the passenger side. A little extra engineering of the oil flow paths or a little better tensioner design could have prevented countless issues.
scottc
Member
FWIW, the shop tech doing the oil pressure gauge installation said he thinks the oil galleries were designed too small.Changing oil every 5000-6000km (3000m) is not enough, from "time to time" the engine has to be flushed with 1 qt. ATF added to the oil. I'm still reflecting on that.
Ok, that's a relief. Searching here & F150 forums I'm seeing quotes anywhere from $800-1600 each to replace lifters & followers or the timing chain.
The warranty is an AUL aftermarket and I'm worried making a claim is gonna be like pulling teeth. But, my bank pushed it on me when I bought the car and paid for like 60% of it so maybe it's legit.
Thanks for your help with this. I know this issue comes up all the time but its tough finding "here's exactly my problem" and "here's exactly how I fixed it" posts.
Just got a call from the shop with the fleet mechanic and they said the noise is coming from the lower half of the engine on the passenger side as well as the top. They said I needed to replace my entire 114k mile engine, and said they could do it for $6800.
They didn't give me any more details over the phone, but that doesn't sound right to me. The noise sounds like its coming from "everywhere" under the hood. What would be broken on both the top and the bottom of the engine? The person on the phone couldn't even tell me if the mechanic opened up the valve cover.
Plus, how much should an engine replacement cost? I thought it was like $8-10k?
The noise started ~112500 in August and this is the third time it's been looked at in 1500mi over 3 months. How would an engine go from "fine" to "total loss" that fast? Absolute worst case, I figured I'd be replacing the lifters, rocker arms, timing chain, maybe the passenger side cam. Hopefully getting my warranty to pay for part of it.
Definitely going to get a 2nd opinion.
They didn't give me any more details over the phone, but that doesn't sound right to me. The noise sounds like its coming from "everywhere" under the hood. What would be broken on both the top and the bottom of the engine? The person on the phone couldn't even tell me if the mechanic opened up the valve cover.
Plus, how much should an engine replacement cost? I thought it was like $8-10k?
The noise started ~112500 in August and this is the third time it's been looked at in 1500mi over 3 months. How would an engine go from "fine" to "total loss" that fast? Absolute worst case, I figured I'd be replacing the lifters, rocker arms, timing chain, maybe the passenger side cam. Hopefully getting my warranty to pay for part of it.
Definitely going to get a 2nd opinion.
scottc
Member
Distressing to hear. IMHO, a agree a 2nd opinion is needed. Maybe time to contact your warranty reps too? Debris from a VVT component breakdown could block the oil pickup screen? Unfortunately, a number of other scenarios.
Already called the warranty company and they said to send documents over and an adjuster would contact the shop. I asked about service records and they said 1 year & 10k miles into the warranty they probably wont need anything super detailed. I can prove oil changes but mechanics out here in BK don't keep records like Jiffy Lube. Crossing my fingers it won't be a total nightmare.
Fleet mechanic was way more helpful in person than the tech on the phone, but I kinda get the feeling his diagnosis was more "this **** happens" and that's it. He couldn't say for sure what was broken on the bottom of the engine but said he was sure something was moving around in there. Didn't charge me though, which is nice.
Still gonna get a 2nd or 3rd opinion though. Mentioned this all to my friend who works on his truck and he said he actually bought a new engine at one point from some people he trusts in Queens and had them install it, so maybe I do the work there.
I'd be very surprised if the bottom end was knocking at 114k, unless the engine was abused and/or run very low on oil. Definitely get more opinions. That being said, the price is reasonable for a reman engine replacement, if it actually needs it. But again, I'm highly skeptical the bottom end is bad.
Also, you shouldn't need to worry about the warranty. Leave that up to the shop. If they want the business and want to get paid they will deal with the adjuster. All I did was print out a sheet of paper with the warranty info and dropped it off with my truck at the dealership, they took care of everything.
Got a 2nd quote at $4000 to replace everything in the left head. I think that included a timing set too, and he said I should upgrade the oil pump while we're in there. Also that a rebuild was probably a better idea because a used engine might have the same problem in 30k miles, but the rebuild with good maintenance should last a lot longer than that.
This lines up with what I've read from people brave enough to try this at home: Sometime around 100k its gonna start making noise, don't mess with lifters or the cam phaser, just open it up and replace everything in one shot cuz the parts are cheap and you'll be good for a while.
I'm stressed though because I called two ford dealerships and they both refused to even look at it. One of them said the noise was normal and insisted I didn't need service, and another mechanic said "yeah we know exactly what that is and we don't want the job"
its frustrating because the Windstar I bought from my parents in '02 ran for 185k miles, and a Taurus I picked up from a mechanic for $1200 racked up 250k+ miles before it couldn't pass emissions and I had to junk it. And I ran those cars into the ground. Figured I'm an adult now, and I'm gonna take care of this thing, and two oil changes later Ford mechanics are telling me to throw it in the garbage.
I'm 1 year into a loan on this and I might have up to $5000 in engine repair covered by the warranty. The noise started at 112500 this summer and I've only put 1500 miles on since, I can't imagine its a total loss. I was hoping to get 160k miles out of this thing at the bare minimum and pay for some off road upgrades. Now I'm afraid to even spend money on new tires for it.
Anyway, Would you rebuild the whole valve train or just replace the engine?
This lines up with what I've read from people brave enough to try this at home: Sometime around 100k its gonna start making noise, don't mess with lifters or the cam phaser, just open it up and replace everything in one shot cuz the parts are cheap and you'll be good for a while.
I'm stressed though because I called two ford dealerships and they both refused to even look at it. One of them said the noise was normal and insisted I didn't need service, and another mechanic said "yeah we know exactly what that is and we don't want the job"
its frustrating because the Windstar I bought from my parents in '02 ran for 185k miles, and a Taurus I picked up from a mechanic for $1200 racked up 250k+ miles before it couldn't pass emissions and I had to junk it. And I ran those cars into the ground. Figured I'm an adult now, and I'm gonna take care of this thing, and two oil changes later Ford mechanics are telling me to throw it in the garbage.
I'm 1 year into a loan on this and I might have up to $5000 in engine repair covered by the warranty. The noise started at 112500 this summer and I've only put 1500 miles on since, I can't imagine its a total loss. I was hoping to get 160k miles out of this thing at the bare minimum and pay for some off road upgrades. Now I'm afraid to even spend money on new tires for it.
Anyway, Would you rebuild the whole valve train or just replace the engine?
Read your warranty's fine print. If it covers an engine replacement I'd just drive it until it dies, especially if you can't find anyone to preemptively fix it. No sense in having a warranty if you're going to pay out of pocket for major repairs.
Vernon Burns
Member
I'm on my third 2007 Expedition EL. Current one has 183k miles. I think they made some minor engine changes in 2009 (not sure), so this may not apply. But if you want to try something cheap and easy, buy a bottle of Seafoam. Follow the directions, but pretty much put it in where you add oil (I think about half of the bottle), and run it for half an hour or so (idling or driving), then change the oil and filter. May not fix your problem, but it is one of the few "additives" I've used that actually work.
