Bilsteins and spring seats...

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Thunderbirdsport

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I used an oreilly rental compressor set on mine. No issues. Used an impact to turn em down and back 'em off, etc. Finagling the hooks on the springs to get an "even" squeeze was the hardest bit.
 

sjwelds

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When I did the rears on my 08 I borrowed a compressor from the local diesel shop. I then used our 90 ton shop press to do the actual compression, and just used the tool to hold them compressed.

Worked a treat.
 

Tee Celly

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Hello Gents,

Have a question around the Motorcraft shocks on ebay. How do they ride on your Expy....Stiff?...or Spongy?

Here's my situation: Have a 2012 Expy EL Limited. The orig rear shocks gave out a couple months ago and my mechanic replaced them with an aftermarket brand he got 'from a warehouse'. Well, these parts have me bouncing like Spaulding around town...almost as bad as the old worn out ones! He did replace both shocks and springs (so was said) Dont think this guy would lie to me...but. I cannot continue with the bouncing and have to do something.

So, my real question is...do I replace the shocks alone, and if so which brand? Or the entire rear strut assemblies...and also which brand?

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
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Thunderbirdsport

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It sounds like you're in the same boat as I was in. The struts (or shocks, in our applications either name can be used) were bad, the ride was bouncy and spongy and the handling was shit.

I read here, learned that Bilsteins are a good option (more on this below), so I made some orders and when the new struts came in, I got motivated....


So I started with the backs. Ran into a snag when I discovered a previous owner replaced the backs with a quickstrut replacement. This is where it gets really good (or bad, from my point of view..)

I put the new Bilstein struts with the old quickstrut springs and was less than pleased with the height and rear ride. It's still soft and mushy. The fronts were motorcraft.

The snag that I was referring to earlier?

The quickstruts in the rear had no removable spring seat, so I had to order at a pretty heft cost a set of shocks (motorcraft) just to pirate the spring seats from them so I could install the bilsteins. At the same time, I ordered 2 fronts as well, as I didn't know if they were going to be the same way (they weren't, they still had OEM struts).

I returned the replacement motorcraft fronts when I discovered I had springs seats up front to swap onto the bilsteins. The backs...well, I have two brand-damn-new rear struts, sans spring seats. I'd sell 'em to you, but you're gonna need spring seats, still...

In your case, I'd recommend the motorcraft, as you're going to need those springs seats and your existing quickstrut stuff won't have them (they're welded onto the strut body on those cheap pieces of *****, FYI).

Now the other thing I had to do...I ordered 2 rear Moog brand springs. These are beeeeeeffffffyyyyyy compared to the quickstrut springs that I had to reuse. As soon as this bitterly cold shit temperature comes up a bit, I'll go swap 'em in to get my missing inch or so back.

For what it's worth, I used the Bilstein 4600 all around, but had to buy 2 ebay motorcraft rear struts for the spring seats, and 2 Moog coils (also rear).

Let it be known that if you order motorcraft stuff they typically do come with new spring seats. Bilsteins do NOT repeat NOT and if you have quickstruts, you will NOT be able to put the bilsteins in as there is nothing for the spring to seat onto at the bottom....no bueno, amigo.

I got lucky on the fronts of mine, as the ford stuff was still there, spring seats. So I sent the fronts back and got a refund on those. I guess it still comes back to bite me, as the ball joint nuts (upper) wouldn't come off, so I torched 'em and just got new upper control arms with greasable ball joints. Done.

What amounted to a 2 day project (if even that) turned into a real headache, and I still have to put those f*ckin' springs in. But it can warm up....I'm not THAT impatient lol.

I know this got kinda rambly, so if you want to PM, I'll break it down for ya, in terms of what you might need, or possibly run into..

Can you do this yourself? Saves a few bucks ;)
 

Tee Celly

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Thank you @Thunderbirdsport . I really appreciate the info.

I had it up on jack stands in the garage earlier, to take a look. And you are correct, the spring seats are welded onto the shock mount on these that are installed. After the Texas Winter-Apocalypse of '21 passes next week, I'll try to save a few bucks by grabbing a spring set off a donor vehicle...there should be a few new ones at the salvage yards after this week. lol. (ok, not funny...but still)
If not, aftermarket springs will be in order.

Thanks again for the info!
 
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Thunderbirdsport

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Yeah, I feel you on the winter crap. It's currently 3 below here....that is, three below zero. Gonna get colder too...I'm over this shit. Been laid up the last two days with a migraine, and I had to get outside yesterday to bring wood in. It was pretty rough lol.
 

mjp2

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Can someone take measurements of the stock lower spring seats for comparison?

Bilstein does sell spring seats for their 46mm body shocks. In case anyone needs part #s:

2021-02-15.jpg

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Thunderbirdsport

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I can't measure my spring seats, but I can get the micrometer out and measure my set of rear motorcraft struts that I bought just for the seats. They are the same dia as the Bilsteins.

JFC..I wish I'd known that Bilstein sold those spring seats. Arghhhhhhhh.

Give me a bit. I'll have to dig out the shop door, it's snowed in and probably stuck down a little..
 

mjp2

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It took me a few months of searching forums and fuzzy photos in random threads to figure out the part #. Once I had that it took another 2 months for the parts to come in. I ordered these from Summit back in December.

On the bright side, they're cheap. I think these were around $13 each, which is why I ordered without having confirmation that they'd work. I figure it's a small enough expense for something that might not work out but may help both me and the rest of the Expedition community.
 
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I'll get the outer dia of the shock tubes for you shortly. I'm fairly certain they'll fit though. If you know for sure that your spring seats will fit a Bilstein 4600 for a '07-'17 Expedition, then they'll also work on Motorcraft OEM replacement.

But, to be 100% I'll still measure for you. Just give me a bit. Have to dig out the snow drifted in against my shop door. I love winter...not.
 

mjp2

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Regarding Bilsteins, is anyone aware of the reason why 5100s aren't specified for the rear of the pre-2014 Expeditions? The lower mounting bolt eye is the right diameter, and looking through the Rock Auto parts catalog shows other shock brands offering identical rear shock part #s for 2007-2014+ trucks.

My plan is to eventually pick up a set of rear 5100s for the 2014+ trucks to try out on my 2010.
 
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Thunderbirdsport

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That I don't know. I probably would've went with the 5100s if they'd been available (or more accurately, not have a lengthy wait time to arrive)

Mine is an '11, I wasn't aware that there is/was a difference in the lower mounting points..
 

1oldtimer

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I remember reading that the 5100 and 4600 are basically the same. Of course minus the level capability for the front. ?????
 

mjp2

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I remember reading that the 5100 and 4600 are basically the same. Of course minus the level capability for the front. ?????
You are correct. It's that ride height adjustability I'm looking for without the use of spacers.
 

bryan

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Unless I can harvest the spring seats from Gen 2 trucks......hmmm. I'll have to check and see if the shock tube diameters are the same, or if they even had the same stuff, for that matter..
The second and third gen are slightly different, but still bolt in. You should have no issue using the second gen stuff.
 
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Thunderbirdsport

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Yesterday I got the Moog replacement rear springs put in. Was a pretty quick job as by now I've had the rear struts out for the third time. Static and unloaded they're the same height as the unknown brand of quickstrut springs that I had on....(they weren't the OEM rear springs).

I took measurements at the same spots, both sides, before and after, the vehicle didn't move in between same-side measurements...it gained an inch and a quarter in height, though I expect a little settling over time.

It now sits more level according to my eyeballs, and the rear actually feels a little firmer on rough stuff. The wheel well g
 

mjp2

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I'll get the outer dia of the shock tubes for you shortly. I'm fairly certain they'll fit though. If you know for sure that your spring seats will fit a Bilstein 4600 for a '07-'17 Expedition, then they'll also work on Motorcraft OEM replacement.

But, to be 100% I'll still measure for you. Just give me a bit. Have to dig out the snow drifted in against my shop door. I love winter...not.
I did some more research and parts comparisons and found that the only real solution is to use OEM spring seats. I posted pics and results in its own thread.

https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/lower-spring-seats-i-spent-money-so-you-dont-have-to.47225/
 

Scott Carden

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I just did the same swap on mine with bilstien 5100 and my factory’s were welded on. Bought a nice set of used standard suspension struts online from a scrap yard for 90$ plus 20$ shipping and had all the parts I needed in 2 days.
 
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