Cam Phasers or Turbo Wastegate Rattle?

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patterrr

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I'm so sorry for starting another thread on this topic... Ever since I bought by 2019 Expedition max there has been a rattle from the engine compartment on cold start. I have literally spent hours reading these forum posts and watching YouTube videos. From what I learned, I self-diagnosed it as being wastegate rattle. I'm totally not qualified to diagnose, but there you go.

Anyways, I took the vehicle to my Ford dealership today to have the failed center brake light replaced under warranty, and I mentioned to the guy that there's a rattle in the engine compartment on cold start; if they have it all day and start it after it has cooled down, can they check it out? He said right then it's cam phasers. I asked how they know that the rattle isn't the electronic turbo wastegate, and he said that isn't a possible rattle, but "cam phasers go out on all these vehicles, so I'm sure that's what it is". He then called me an hour later and said the rattle is definitely from cam phasers, and he wants the vehicle for several days to replace them. Odd since the vehicle didn't even have time to cool down enough to replicate.

It's a bummer how experience can vary from one dealership to another; some complain that their dealer refuses to fix the problem, while mine is so anxious to jump on it. I'm thrilled they want to fix my problem, but my question is: HOW DOES ONE DETERMINE WHETHER THE RATTLE IS CAM PHASERS OR THE WASTEGATE? I'd love to feel confident that it has been properly diagnosed rather than diagnosed based on assumption because I really don't want the engine opened up if it's a different issue, and the guy I spoke to did not instill much confidence for me.

I need the vehicle tomorrow so told them not to start the work and will schedule it for after boating season ends when I don't need the vehicle. He told me that's a terrible decision because they could go out any minute and leave me stranded. I thought that was odd as well because from what I've read in other posts, Ford doesn't even think it's a problem that needs fixed.

Anyways, here's a sound clip but not very good... The rattle in this clip sounds so much worse than it actually is. Standing next to the car you only notice it if you're listening, and it just sounds like an exhaust hanger is loose.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10TqS3epotFVIQo_Lv3-puTUzAL5RyKfg/view?usp=sharing
 

BMW2FORD

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I couldn’t open the file the listen but the phaser rattle is up high and the front of the engine. Wastegate rattle isn’t as bad of a sound and is low and toward the back of the engine and usually heard best at the back of the front wheel. In the field, getting the car to where the customer says they hear the rattle and using a mechanics stethoscope or long screwdriver to the ear is normal practice. If that doesn’t work, disconnecting systems to alter the noise or visible inspection would be next.
 

keny01998

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The problem is usually from the cam phasers. I had mine replace back in August and my engine has been quiet seen. I have 2019 XLT 4wd with only 23k miles. The dealer said they saw many F150 with same issue and they got the parts within a week.
 
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patterrr

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I picked it up yesterday (turns out they didn't even have parts to fix the brake lights so only got diagnosed), and they said the parts will be here within a few weeks to do the cam phasers. I plan to wait until December when I don't need the vehicle. How long did it take ya'll to get yours fixed? I did ask the service rep specifically how they diagnosed the issue, and he said that when they hear a rattle they start with replacing the cam phasers...
 

aggiegrad05

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I'm so sorry for starting another thread on this topic... Ever since I bought by 2019 Expedition max there has been a rattle from the engine compartment on cold start. I have literally spent hours reading these forum posts and watching YouTube videos. From what I learned, I self-diagnosed it as being wastegate rattle. I'm totally not qualified to diagnose, but there you go.

Anyways, I took the vehicle to my Ford dealership today to have the failed center brake light replaced under warranty, and I mentioned to the guy that there's a rattle in the engine compartment on cold start; if they have it all day and start it after it has cooled down, can they check it out? He said right then it's cam phasers. I asked how they know that the rattle isn't the electronic turbo wastegate, and he said that isn't a possible rattle, but "cam phasers go out on all these vehicles, so I'm sure that's what it is". He then called me an hour later and said the rattle is definitely from cam phasers, and he wants the vehicle for several days to replace them. Odd since the vehicle didn't even have time to cool down enough to replicate.

It's a bummer how experience can vary from one dealership to another; some complain that their dealer refuses to fix the problem, while mine is so anxious to jump on it. I'm thrilled they want to fix my problem, but my question is: HOW DOES ONE DETERMINE WHETHER THE RATTLE IS CAM PHASERS OR THE WASTEGATE? I'd love to feel confident that it has been properly diagnosed rather than diagnosed based on assumption because I really don't want the engine opened up if it's a different issue, and the guy I spoke to did not instill much confidence for me.

I need the vehicle tomorrow so told them not to start the work and will schedule it for after boating season ends when I don't need the vehicle. He told me that's a terrible decision because they could go out any minute and leave me stranded. I thought that was odd as well because from what I've read in other posts, Ford doesn't even think it's a problem that needs fixed.

Anyways, here's a sound clip but not very good... The rattle in this clip sounds so much worse than it actually is. Standing next to the car you only notice it if you're listening, and it just sounds like an exhaust hanger is loose.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10TqS3epotFVIQo_Lv3-puTUzAL5RyKfg/view?usp=sharing
If the rattle is harsh and goes away after 2-3 seconds, it's cam phasers.

If it is softer and lasts for 60-120 seconds, it's wastegate.
 

aggiegrad05

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I'm so sorry for starting another thread on this topic... Ever since I bought by 2019 Expedition max there has been a rattle from the engine compartment on cold start. I have literally spent hours reading these forum posts and watching YouTube videos. From what I learned, I self-diagnosed it as being wastegate rattle. I'm totally not qualified to diagnose, but there you go.

Anyways, I took the vehicle to my Ford dealership today to have the failed center brake light replaced under warranty, and I mentioned to the guy that there's a rattle in the engine compartment on cold start; if they have it all day and start it after it has cooled down, can they check it out? He said right then it's cam phasers. I asked how they know that the rattle isn't the electronic turbo wastegate, and he said that isn't a possible rattle, but "cam phasers go out on all these vehicles, so I'm sure that's what it is". He then called me an hour later and said the rattle is definitely from cam phasers, and he wants the vehicle for several days to replace them. Odd since the vehicle didn't even have time to cool down enough to replicate.

It's a bummer how experience can vary from one dealership to another; some complain that their dealer refuses to fix the problem, while mine is so anxious to jump on it. I'm thrilled they want to fix my problem, but my question is: HOW DOES ONE DETERMINE WHETHER THE RATTLE IS CAM PHASERS OR THE WASTEGATE? I'd love to feel confident that it has been properly diagnosed rather than diagnosed based on assumption because I really don't want the engine opened up if it's a different issue, and the guy I spoke to did not instill much confidence for me.

I need the vehicle tomorrow so told them not to start the work and will schedule it for after boating season ends when I don't need the vehicle. He told me that's a terrible decision because they could go out any minute and leave me stranded. I thought that was odd as well because from what I've read in other posts, Ford doesn't even think it's a problem that needs fixed.

Anyways, here's a sound clip but not very good... The rattle in this clip sounds so much worse than it actually is. Standing next to the car you only notice it if you're listening, and it just sounds like an exhaust hanger is loose.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10TqS3epotFVIQo_Lv3-puTUzAL5RyKfg/view?usp=sharing
I just listened to your file...I think you have both the cam phaser issue (that's the harsh rattle in the first couple seconds) and a rattle in the wastegate (that's the soft rattle that continues after the harsh rattle at start-up stops).
 

Samuel Street

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Here is something to try. While starting hold down accelerator for 8 to 10 seconds, this will prevent the engine from starting giving a chance for the engine to build oil pressure. If no rattle its phaser issue.
 

Thomas Hardesty

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Mine has the 3 second rattle on cold start up as well. I change my oil every 3-4000 miles regardless! I’m not certain that the phaser rattle isn’t really that harmful? I know the Dealerships will replace them all day long if you pay them! From what I have researched, to replace them the entire top end and many other parts need to be detached to perform this (FORD F-UP), cam phaser change, and the cost is over $2700.00? I have 92,000 on my vehicle, and baby it all day! So I’m as confused as the next guy as to the truth about changing these out? Seems like a Class Action lawsuit needs to be filed to get Fords attention?
 

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