Camshaft issues - P0022 and P052D

[chrissbu]

Took our new (to us) 2019 Expedition (66k miles) on a bit of a road trip last weekend...first longer trip since we got it, about 350 miles each way. The drive down was mainly uneventful, but once I got into town, I noticed that the engine cam noise was much louder and prevalent than usual. On the drive home, even at highway speed, I could occasionally make out the "rattle." When I started up the truck a couple of days after getting home, the check engine light came on

Hooked it up to Forscan this morning, and pulled two DTCs that stood out:

===PCM DTC P0022:00-ED===
Code: P0022 - 'A' Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Retarded (Bank 2)

Status (-ED):
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC
- Test not complete

Module: Powertrain Control Module

===END PCM DTC P0022:00-ED===

===PCM DTC P052D:00-ED===
Code: P052D - Cold Start Intake (A) Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2)

Status (-ED):
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC
- Test not complete

Module: Powertrain Control Module

===END PCM DTC P052D:00-ED===

I'm guessing that this is probably a bad sign The dealer I bought it from has a 100K powertrain warranty, but they're 2 hours away, and I'm not sure if this would be covered or not. And I see that there's a history of issues with the camshafts with these, but the last notes I found said that they ended the TSB back on Jan 1 2023. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions of things I can do or check out before biting the bullet and sending it into the shop? I do have a Ford dealer just a couple of miles from me down the road, and was debating having them take a look first, on the off chance that it might be covered under a TSB or other extended coverage, but wanted to check with the collective wisdom of this group before I had to start plopping down cash.

 

[Soliyou]

I think the Powertrain warranty from the dealer is your best option. Read the warranty terms carefully before heading there.

 

[chrissbu]

Had the local dealer take a look, and they said all 4 vct units need replacement, and quoted $2800 plus tax, but parts are all backordered. I'm going to send the estimate over to the dealer we bought it from to confirm they'd cover it under their power train warranty.

 

[5280tunage]

sadly i bet the previous owner knew about this... Feel bad for your issues.

 

[chrissbu]

sadly i bet the previous owner knew about this... Feel bad for your issues.

I think so, too, along with the dealer. When I told my salesman about it, his response was that we should have listened to him when he said to get the extended warranty.

 

[NorthWestYuppie]

Where are you at with miles? I’m at 51k. Everything so far covered thankfully live two miles away from dealership. Good luck.

 

[NorthWestYuppie]

Where are you at with miles? I’m at 51k. Everything so far covered thankfully live two miles away from dealership. Good luck.

I got Powertrain replaced /dial es at 47k

 

[NorthWestYuppie]

I got Powertrain replaced /dial es at 47k

*fixed at 47k

 

[chrissbu]

We're at 66k miles. I just got confirmation from the service manager that it would be covered under the dealer's powertrain warranty, and just needs signoff from the general manager to approve the coverage. <whew>

 

[SyndicateZ]

We're at 66k miles. I just got confirmation from the service manager that it would be covered under the dealer's powertrain warranty, and just needs signoff from the general manager to approve the coverage. <whew>

Time to get that Ford PremiumCare extended warranty my friend.

 

[chrissbu]

Dropped the truck off last night, after talking to the service manager on Friday and confirming that they'd already ordered and received all of the parts needed. So hopefully by the end of the day tomorrow, the truck should be all fixed up with new all new VCTs. Fingers crossed it all goes smoothly, and I'm only on the hook for the $200 deductible.

 

[chrissbu]

It's always "fun" when your phone lights up with notifications about your vehicle when it's not in your possession...just got a "Powertrain malfunction/reduced power" warning on the phone app. We've seen a couple of those since we got the truck earlier this year, but there were never any DTCs stored, and it would clear up with the whole pull over / turn off / open door / restart the car process. It'll be interesting to see what the techs have to say about it.

 

[chrissbu]

While I'm still waiting on an update from the dealer, the Ford app showed me that the truck has racked up about 50 miles this morning, and gone through almost a quarter of a tank of gas. I'm not sure what they do as part of normal diagnostics or testing after the VCT replacements, or if they're trying to reproduce the "powertrain malfunction" light that they triggered yesterday afternoon. It was interesting to watch them drive it all over the city before returning to the shop.

 

[chrissbu]

And just to (hopefully) wrap up this story, service manager emailed me to let me know that the repairs are done and went as expected, and they did a 30+ mile test drive just to make sure everything was good. The repair is covered for 2 years / unlimited miles at any Ford dealer, so I'm wondering exactly how that works, but not going to complain. We'll make the drive down to pick it up on Thursday night.

But I gotta say that the folks at Ron Lewis Ford in Beaver Falls have been great, including the service manager (Liz) and the folks in parts that worked to get all of the parts in before I dropped the car off. They stood by their powertrain warranty that came with the car, and all we're responsible for is the deductible.

 

[chrissbu]

And when I had thought/hoped the story was over...I went out yesterday to take my son to the dr, and found a huge lake of oil all over my garage floor. Confirmed with the dipstick that nearly all of the oil has leaked out somewhere...looking underneath, there is oil dripping from a number of different spots along the belly.

So, back to the shop it goes.

 

[SyndicateZ]

And when I had thought/hoped the story was over...I went out yesterday to take my son to the dr, and found a huge lake of oil all over my garage floor. Confirmed with the dipstick that nearly all of the oil has leaked out somewhere...looking underneath, there is oil dripping from a number of different spots along the belly.

So, back to the shop it goes.View attachment 78000

Sorry, that sux. Hopefully the dealer takes responsibility

 

[5280tunage]

Rhu Rho Raggy. Hoping the dealer had it towed back to the shop and maybe sent you some rags to clean that up. That to me is what I dislike about this whole thing, it's a ticking time bomb if you have dealers across the country having to crack open engines because of a poor design, we're just all rolling the dice on when something like this will start happening to more and more of us. Yes, its most likely to occur right after the work, but it's like cracking any seal... Just think about the folks on here that have had to have this done 3 or 4 times.

 

[chrissbu]

So, the dealer that did the original repair is almost 150 miles away, but they told me to just take it to my local dealer and give them the service manager's contact information. They got it in earlier this week, and the tech found that the VDOP seals were missing...so they installed new seals and topped the oil back off (3 quarts) and we've got it back, and the original dealer covered the bill. So fingers crossed we're at the end of this story

 

[khammer]

So, the dealer that did the original repair is almost 150 miles away, but they told me to just take it to my local dealer and give them the service manager's contact information. They got it in earlier this week, and the tech found that the VDOP seals were missing...so they installed new seals and topped the oil back off (3 quarts) and we've got it back, and the original dealer covered the bill. So fingers crossed we're at the end of this story

Have you had any issues since this repair?

My 2018 with 105K threw CEL last week. I pulled DTCs from Forscan and had P0021 'A' Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced (Bank 2)

I ended up clearing the DTCs and the CEL is off now. I was attempting to clear DTC's for RGTM due to issue with rear lift gate and cleared all the codes by mistake. So no my CEL is not on and has not returned in the last week. I guess I will wait to see if the camshaft position is in fact a problem and throws the code again before taking it in. I have an AUL service contract so should cover any needed repairs to powertrain.

 

[khammer]

CEL did come back on for a few days. I noticed a rough idle only 1 time in the last week. Same code P0021.

CEL then went off yesterday so I checked DTCs on forscan and it stored the P0021: noted that malfunction indicator lamp is OFF for this DTC. There was also the code P0018 - crankshaft position - camshaft position correlation - bank 2 sensor A status (-68): Malfunction indicator lamp is OFF for this DTC as well.

2 weeks out from my service appointment so I am just going to monitor if CEL returns but at least the codes are stored for now and they should still be able to do diagnostics based on the DTCS present.