Camshaft replacement due to scoring

[Underdog66]

I'm working on a complete timing job on an 2005 Expedition 5.4l 3v engine. I've been following FordTechMakuLoco's video series. I removed the cam and followers today. Upon inspection and cleaning I noticed some scoring in the shaft of the cam assembly that resides under the cam towers. I watched Brian's videos several times on this topic, as well as related repair videos. He usually points out if something is normal or abnormal wear. He also generally indicates if a part should be replaced or if the wear is normal. Does the camshaft HAVE to be replaced or can t be left as is or polished?

 

[BMW2FORD]

If you can catch your nail in the grooves pretty well then I don’t think polishing will help. Cutting that like a crankshaft sounds more like what’s needed but that’s going to thin that area and enlarge the clearance and lead to other problems so I’d say not to do that as well. If the head is OK and not scored, I’d replace the cam but also look into why that happened which could be from a lot of things. Did the engine have any oil pressure problems or sludge under the valve covers?

 

[Hamfisted]

Can you feel any surface defect with your finger nail ? If not you can clean it up with some emery cloth. Is that the passenger side camshaft near cylinder 3 ?

Ford 5.4 3v Camshafts at Summit Racing



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[Underdog66]

Can you feel any surface defect with your finger nail ? If not you can clean it up with some emery cloth. Is that the passenger side camshaft near cylinder 3 ?

Ford 5.4 3v Camshafts at Summit Racing



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I have short finger nails, so I cannot really tell. That picture in the above post IS of the passenger side cam and its the space between the back lobs and the next one forward. Sorry I don't know which cylinder number it is. Why? Would that be a tell tale sign of something?



The timing chain had been rubbing against the front cover and ate away some metal. I purchased the Expedition in this condition. The previous owner ignored the warning signs of the phasers/timing needing attention. I don't know how long the guide was broken. I had a friend who does auto repair look at the front cover damage. He said he would be concerned about where the metal went that was scraped off the cover. I showed him the cam and he stated, "well that's where all that metal went." He also said that it is 'possible' that some did similar damage to the main bearings and crankshaft?

As I stated, I've seen a number of videos on this procedure/repair, many with front covers that look like the one above. Not a single mention about where the metal might have ended up, nor that it should be a concern. Even Brian (aka FordTechMakuLoco) has a video with a cover that looks exactly like mine.

Anyway, I hate to put the camshaft back in if its going to cause issues. Conversely, I hate to spend a few hundred dollars more if the main bearing/crank shaft is just as damaged.

Thanks for the response.

 

[BMW2FORD]

Wow, sorry man. That’s a tough spot. For sure some of that metal did get to the mains and crank as well as all the other engine parts. My experience with overhead cam engines is it always hurts the cams most. I think you got to see what you want to do with the truck. If it’s in great shape and only the engine is a problem then maybe a reman or used good engine is best so you have a decent truck for a long time. If it’s beat up and not worth an engine than maybe clean the cam journal up a bit and put it back together and keep your fingers crossed. If you do put it back together as is, change the oil often and maybe step it up to a 40 weight oil to try to get the most you can out of it.

 

[BMW2FORD]

The other thing you could do to is pull the oil pan and a few main and rod caps to see how they look while your this far in to make a better decision. Some metal might still be in the pan to gauge what your in for. I kind of worry about not going more into that engine since there’s also a black coating of sludge on the back of the cover that to me means the oil wasn’t changed often enough which probably compounded all of this. Rebuilding your existing engine is another option too, just depends what you want to do with the truck and accessibility to a machine shop or a used or reman engine.

 

[Hamfisted]

If the chain guides were broken up or pieces missing I would strongly recommend pulling the oil pan off and cleaning out the oil pickup tube screen. The number 3 cylinder cam area is always borderline oil starved on the early 3V motors. Especially using Ford's recommended 5w-20 oil. Throw in some lack of oil changes or use of cheap oil, and you have a recipe for cam damage. Run a razor blade over the cam area and see if you can feel anything. If you don't feel any gouging I would polish it up with emery cloth and use it again. Any aluminum off the timing cover would have to go through the oil filter to get to the mains or anything else, so I don't think you'll see damage their. Do use a high volume oil pump when you reassemble the motor though. As well as a good synthetic 10w-30 oil and Motorcraft filter. Put the new oil pump on while you have the oil pan off. It's much easier to get to the pickup tube / oil pump bolts.

 

[JExpedition07]

That pretty ugly, my front cover had the slightest start of a nick when I went in with no plastic missing yet. Cams were smooth as silk. This is scary. I’d see if you can get new cam caps maybe.

 

[Underdog66]

Thank you all for the input. The truck is in decent shape for an 05. The previous owner replaced the rocker panels, since we live in Michigan. The design of those is poor as far as a way for water and salt to escape. Every one I've ever owned gets clogged with mud and the salty water just sits there. That repair alone cost him $2500. He also replaced many suspension parts as well as brakes and wheel hubs
I think I'm going to 'risk it' as far as any other repairs at this time. I'll clean up the scoring and reuse the camshaft. I did replace the oil pump without removing the pan. I tend to think as someone pointed out that most of the metal shavings would have gotten filtered out. Digging into it further by removing the oil pan doesn't make sense to me. If I remove some of the main and rod caps to see how they look and they look bad, I'd feel as if I had to replace the engine. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but IF the engines goes a later point then I would consider a crate/reman engine. I'm already $1100 into it and 10 labor hours. In my opinion it isn't prudent to invest anymore into an engine that I could just replace for a couple thousand more.

I flushed the pan with kerosene and used an inspection camera to check for any residue. I also poured the kerosene into the oil pickup tube from the top while I had the oil pump off. I did replace the pump with a Meling high volume pump as suggested. It wasn't easy to remove and replace the pick up bolts, but with a little patience, instruction from FordTechMakuLoco, and the right tools I did it!

The previous owner had already been using 5w-30 full synthetic instead of the recommended 5w-20. I will continue to use 5w-30. I plan on changing the oil and filter early in case the flushing with kerosene didn't clean it up 100%.

Thanks for the advice eveyone.

 

[Hamfisted]

Were your timing chain guides still 100% intact ? If they broke up or pieces of plastic are missing from them I would still pull the oil pan and physically remove the broken plastic pieces from the pan and oil pickup tube screen. That stuff gets jammed up in that oil intake. If you can account for all of the guide pieces then you should be good to go.

 

[Fastcar]

I'd be looking at a replacement engine. Way too much scoring and possibility of metal shaving's floating around for me. I'm thinking blocked oil passages down the road.

 

[MC775]

Hi @Underdog66,

how is your Expedition doing? Have you put scored camshafts back in or replaced the engine? I'm asking because I'm in a similar situation, my camshaft journals are scored pretty rough, but lobes are OK. I found it during a timing replacement procedure and I decided to put cams back in as they are (just polished them with an emery cloth). Now I wonder how long can it last with proper oil pressure and frequent oil changes.

 

[Underdog66]

Just an update. I did NOT replace the cams nor did I remove the oil pan. I did LIGHTLY sand the cam journals with emery cloth and cleaned them with brake clean before reinstalling them. I removed all the broken plastic guide pieces and accounted for them all. As for the 'metal shavings' floating around I dumped several gallons of kerosene, 5 quarts at a time, down through the head. I also inspected the oil pan with an inspection camera and found it to be clean as a whistle.

I know I should have replaced the cam shafts and remove the oil pan. HOWEVER I was already elbows deep into it, as well as $1000, I didn't want to invest anymore time and/or money. I had a BUDGET and time constraints. By the time I would have monkeyed around with dropping the front axles to remove the oil pan, I'd have been better off replacing the engine.

That said its been a year and 10,000 miles and she's running like a champ! On a side note when I purchased the vehicle the previous owner stated they were getting HORRIBLE millage. He said he was lucky to get 10 MPG. After the timing job and a 'tune up' she was getting 12 MPG. The CEL was coming on for a O2 sensor issues, code P0420. I bought and used CataClean as per the direction. It not only fixed the O2 sensor issue, my millage improved. I am now getting 14.5 MPG on a 17 year old gas guzzler.

Thanks for the input and the interest. I would say overall its worth doing the timing repair. Its especially nice that Brian at FordTechMakuloco has a step by step guide. I would not have even attempted it without his 'help.'

 

[MC775]

It is nice to know that yours is still running strong. I'm in a similar situation and decided to not invest anymore in this engine. Timing set consumed my budget - I bought this truck a month ago and was told the engine is after a rebuid and in a perfect condition, what a lie... I added MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide) to the oil, it is a friction reducer and it actually works. I don't know if you use it in America, but here in Europe it is an old method to give a worn engine some more life. I hope mine will hold at least 10k miles.

 

[riphip]

I would be running some type of friction fighter in the oil with that one & would not make long trips in it.

Just me tho, I'm Old.