Cold start rattle in the turbo
- Thread starter DWs-TTEB
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OP
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DWs-TTEB
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From @Bill Schell :
"Update. Had the work completed this week. Dropped off Monday, it was scheduled for 3 full days, and it took 5 days. Found out they opted to do a "body off"... which made me cinch up at the counter
. I've heard about them doing this on F-series trucks but not on Expy's/Nav's.
Anyway, they ended up including the oil & filter change. They performed the work under the 60K powertrain warranty and to TSB 20-2166. I see a good many have been asking about the "expected 3Q19 TSB release" regarding the timing chain/cam phaser/VCT problems - it did not get published until 06/04/20. Oddly enough, in all my searches on SSM and TSB's regarding this problem, I never came across this TSB. Hopefully this will help others should they end up dealing with the problem.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10177121-0001.pdf
No problems on the 60 mile return trip home. No leaks, rattles, and no cold start noise... so far. It's both weird and a bit unnerving to know your rig was basically split apart, but I guess that's how they do things these days."
"Update. Had the work completed this week. Dropped off Monday, it was scheduled for 3 full days, and it took 5 days. Found out they opted to do a "body off"... which made me cinch up at the counter
. I've heard about them doing this on F-series trucks but not on Expy's/Nav's.Anyway, they ended up including the oil & filter change. They performed the work under the 60K powertrain warranty and to TSB 20-2166. I see a good many have been asking about the "expected 3Q19 TSB release" regarding the timing chain/cam phaser/VCT problems - it did not get published until 06/04/20. Oddly enough, in all my searches on SSM and TSB's regarding this problem, I never came across this TSB. Hopefully this will help others should they end up dealing with the problem.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10177121-0001.pdf
No problems on the 60 mile return trip home. No leaks, rattles, and no cold start noise... so far. It's both weird and a bit unnerving to know your rig was basically split apart, but I guess that's how they do things these days."
Vipersinu2
Full Access Members
No Tsp will not fix that knock is bad.
My jaw dropped when I heard that.
That is really bad knock.
I heard the cam phaser rattle, and go away when oil pressure was built up.
I hear the wastegate rattle clearly.
Man that knock is horrible.
Beware.
Michael Banuelos
Member
Just had both turbos replaced in my 2018 Max......
5280tunage
Full Access Members
Here's a few videos of my current noises.
The first movie is an example of the top of the engine, immediately after a cold start. This to me sounds more like the TSB for the VCT etc.
The second video clip is after a cold start, under the vehicle near the drivers side turbo.
Third video is immediately after the previous, ran over to the passenger side turbo.
And finally, about 5 minutes after the cold startup, while driving in a residential area, from a standing stop, with low acceleration, you can hear the turbo's clicking until the wind noise drowns them out.
Assuming none of these are normal at this point. I just hit 11k miles on this thing.
The first movie is an example of the top of the engine, immediately after a cold start. This to me sounds more like the TSB for the VCT etc.
The second video clip is after a cold start, under the vehicle near the drivers side turbo.
Third video is immediately after the previous, ran over to the passenger side turbo.
And finally, about 5 minutes after the cold startup, while driving in a residential area, from a standing stop, with low acceleration, you can hear the turbo's clicking until the wind noise drowns them out.
Assuming none of these are normal at this point. I just hit 11k miles on this thing.
Last edited:
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DWs-TTEB
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My ears didn't pick up any issues with the VCT (cam phasers etc.), but i diffidently heard waste-gate flapper valve rattles big time on the driver's side turbo & a little on the passenger side turbo.
OP
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DWs-TTEB
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The dealership that I purchased from I have lost total faith in. I don't believe that they ever did the certification for it to be cpo vehicle. They redidit when they did the tsb for the vct's. Sony cpo has date of almost a month after I purchased my vehicle but with the mileage I purchased with. Seems wierd. Also I at the time of purchase they never gave me any cpo paper work even though I requested numerous times. They did do the tsb and needed both timing chains replaced as they were stretched. But they refused to do the turbos even though I asked if the rattle stopped when they disconnected the wastegate, they said it did stop, but would not do them. I told them that 8 will find somewhere that would. The major knocking stopped but the rattle I. Turbos is still there. Also fourth gear seems wierd, I asked about that also they said it was normal. I am not sure as the 10 speed seems to skip gears.
I will find a better dealership and have them look at it
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
I will find a better dealership and have them look at it
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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DWs-TTEB
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Picked up my expy from Ford service today at 5:40 P.M. Took 3 full days for them to install a new DS turbo & DS wheel hub. So far, no rattle during deceleration. Will see how a cold start goes tomorrow. The invoice said the tech added 2 qrts of coolant but I checked & its 1/2 inch below the minimum level line while running at normal temp.
5280tunage
Full Access Members
So finally got mine in to the dealer to figure out these rattles.
It was there for about 48 hours which is not fun when they don't have any loaners, but here's the strategy. I wasn't fully onboard with this, but I'll give them a chance. They agreed that they can hear the rattles, as it's super easy to replicate, and they agree they aren't right. They sent recording to Ford (including mine), they used stethoscopes just like I did, and while they can hear rattles in and around the turbo's, Ford is telling them to do the Cam phaser TSB's in addition to a ton of other work, effectively pulling off the whole front of the motor, replacing the cam phasers, replacing the cam's completely, all seals/gaskets, etc. Both master techs said they've not had turbos fail much on these, and Ford is hoping this fixes the rattles.
So frustratingly, they have all of the parts on emergency order and our timeline to get parts could be anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months with the backorders. It's a 3-4 day repair they said.
So I'm left with a $80k+ vehicle, that in under 12k miles needs thousands in repairs over about a week. I sure hope this fixes it and I'm hoping this isn't a gaze into the future.
Question to everyone, this to me means they will likely have to replace all fluids, does that mean a coolant flush effectively and oil change? Seems like there's no way not to.
It was there for about 48 hours which is not fun when they don't have any loaners, but here's the strategy. I wasn't fully onboard with this, but I'll give them a chance. They agreed that they can hear the rattles, as it's super easy to replicate, and they agree they aren't right. They sent recording to Ford (including mine), they used stethoscopes just like I did, and while they can hear rattles in and around the turbo's, Ford is telling them to do the Cam phaser TSB's in addition to a ton of other work, effectively pulling off the whole front of the motor, replacing the cam phasers, replacing the cam's completely, all seals/gaskets, etc. Both master techs said they've not had turbos fail much on these, and Ford is hoping this fixes the rattles.
So frustratingly, they have all of the parts on emergency order and our timeline to get parts could be anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months with the backorders. It's a 3-4 day repair they said.
So I'm left with a $80k+ vehicle, that in under 12k miles needs thousands in repairs over about a week. I sure hope this fixes it and I'm hoping this isn't a gaze into the future.
Question to everyone, this to me means they will likely have to replace all fluids, does that mean a coolant flush effectively and oil change? Seems like there's no way not to.
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DWs-TTEB
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So finally got mine in to the dealer to figure out these rattles.
It was there for about 48 hours which is not fun when they don't have any loaners, but here's the strategy. I wasn't fully onboard with this, but I'll give them a chance. They agreed that they can hear the rattles, as it's super easy to replicate, and they agree they aren't right. They sent recording to Ford (including mine), they used stethoscopes just like I did, and while they can hear rattles in and around the turbo's, Ford is telling them to do the Cam phaser TSB's in addition to a ton of other work, effectively pulling off the whole front of the motor, replacing the cam phasers, replacing the cam's completely, all seals/gaskets, etc. Both master techs said they've not had turbos fail much on these, and Ford is hoping this fixes the rattles.
So frustratingly, they have all of the parts on emergency order and our timeline to get parts could be anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months with the backorders. It's a 3-4 day repair they said.
So I'm left with a $80k+ vehicle, that in under 12k miles needs thousands in repairs over about a week. I sure hope this fixes it and I'm hoping this isn't a gaze into the future.
Question to everyone, this to me means they will likely have to replace all fluids, does that mean a coolant flush effectively and oil change? Seems like there's no way not to.
Yes, they will need to do a coolant flush & oil change since the front engine cover is coming off ("R U Kidding me" forum page herein). Glad there taking care of it. I just went through the wait for parts, it sucks but now my expy is running like new!
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DWs-TTEB
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*Update: Started my expy up after it sat all night & NO rattles at all! Not even a 3 second turbo rattle when the turbo actuator (waste gate open/closer) went through its POST (power on self test).
Yes, they replace your oil and coolant.So finally got mine in to the dealer to figure out these rattles.
It was there for about 48 hours which is not fun when they don't have any loaners, but here's the strategy. I wasn't fully onboard with this, but I'll give them a chance. They agreed that they can hear the rattles, as it's super easy to replicate, and they agree they aren't right. They sent recording to Ford (including mine), they used stethoscopes just like I did, and while they can hear rattles in and around the turbo's, Ford is telling them to do the Cam phaser TSB's in addition to a ton of other work, effectively pulling off the whole front of the motor, replacing the cam phasers, replacing the cam's completely, all seals/gaskets, etc. Both master techs said they've not had turbos fail much on these, and Ford is hoping this fixes the rattles.
So frustratingly, they have all of the parts on emergency order and our timeline to get parts could be anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months with the backorders. It's a 3-4 day repair they said.
So I'm left with a $80k+ vehicle, that in under 12k miles needs thousands in repairs over about a week. I sure hope this fixes it and I'm hoping this isn't a gaze into the future.
Question to everyone, this to me means they will likely have to replace all fluids, does that mean a coolant flush effectively and oil change? Seems like there's no way not to.
And they should replace EVERY gasket, every seal, and every o-ring they touch as they remove interference parts. My Ford engine guy took the time to go through the list with me, while pointing them out on the car.
He also replaced BOLTS. Specifically, intake and timing assembly bolts that get torque spec that includes “stretch”. He said the bolts were one-time use only, and should get replaced anytime they have to be de-tensioned.
Make sure you bring that up.
I also had them replace the water pump while they were in there. This isn’t included as part of the TSB, but I think you’d be crazy not to. Water pumps don’t last forever. The part is cheap. But the labor to replace it is beyond stupid.
But while they have the front cover off and timing hardware removed to address your cam phaser problem, the labor to replace that water pump is exactly zero.
Since mine already had 50,000 miles on it, it was definitely a no-brainer.
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