I am under the impression that the water pump is external on the 3.5 EB. Gen 1 EB had external water pump.
Are you sure it is behind the timing cover??
Cold start rattle in the turbo
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I am under the impression that the water pump is external on the 3.5 EB. Gen 1 EB had external water pump.
Are you sure it is behind the timing cover??
Vipersinu2
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The water pump is external on the 3.5
5280tunage
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I like this idea, but since I'm just under 12k, my guess is they won't go for it. I'll try though but given the last two posts, might not be necessary.
aggiegrad05
Full Access Members
I've got the non-cam phaser rattle in my turbo on start-up. It's annoying, but that's about it.
I asked the dealer about it this week when I was in for my tail light and showed them a video of mine doing it. I like this service advisor a LOT, so he's not being a dick. He is going to show my video to his shop foreman and see, but he sent me this from Ford:
"Summary
To assist with determining when turbocharger repairs are necessary, follow the Service Information.
Service Information
Turbocharged engines may make a variety of sounds although the turbocharger is functioning properly. Some examples of normal turbocharger noises that do not indicate a durability concern include, but are not limited to:
• Rattle noise at idle or during light load conditions
• Whine noise that will track with engine speed
• Whoosh noise on acceleration
• Noise with wastegate actuation (creak, squawk)
Axial or radial play in the turbo shaft is normal unless there is evidence of compressor wheel contact with the compressor housing. Do not compare turbocharger noises to other vehicles as part tolerances, engine calibrations, and other factors can cause sound characteristics to vary between otherwise similar vehicles. It is very rare for a turbo to have a problem without setting a diagnostic trouble code (DTC). Diagnostics should only be performed for turbocharger noise concerns if other symptoms are present in addition to the noise. The turbo should only be replaced if the pinpoint test for a DTC directs to replace the turbo or there is visible damage to the compressor wheel from compressor housing contact. Refer to applicable Workshop Manual and/or Powertrain Control/Emission Diagnosis (PC/ED) Manual diagnostic routines when DTCs or additional symptoms are present."
So basically, if there are no codes thrown and no driveability issues...I am SOL.
I asked the dealer about it this week when I was in for my tail light and showed them a video of mine doing it. I like this service advisor a LOT, so he's not being a dick. He is going to show my video to his shop foreman and see, but he sent me this from Ford:
"Summary
To assist with determining when turbocharger repairs are necessary, follow the Service Information.
Service Information
Turbocharged engines may make a variety of sounds although the turbocharger is functioning properly. Some examples of normal turbocharger noises that do not indicate a durability concern include, but are not limited to:
• Rattle noise at idle or during light load conditions
• Whine noise that will track with engine speed
• Whoosh noise on acceleration
• Noise with wastegate actuation (creak, squawk)
Axial or radial play in the turbo shaft is normal unless there is evidence of compressor wheel contact with the compressor housing. Do not compare turbocharger noises to other vehicles as part tolerances, engine calibrations, and other factors can cause sound characteristics to vary between otherwise similar vehicles. It is very rare for a turbo to have a problem without setting a diagnostic trouble code (DTC). Diagnostics should only be performed for turbocharger noise concerns if other symptoms are present in addition to the noise. The turbo should only be replaced if the pinpoint test for a DTC directs to replace the turbo or there is visible damage to the compressor wheel from compressor housing contact. Refer to applicable Workshop Manual and/or Powertrain Control/Emission Diagnosis (PC/ED) Manual diagnostic routines when DTCs or additional symptoms are present."
So basically, if there are no codes thrown and no driveability issues...I am SOL.
5280tunage
Full Access Members
Here's what I don't like about this. First of all, an $80K+ vehicle shouldn't sound like a 15 yr. old diesel or vehicle with a busted exhaust. And I get not comparing this "turbocharged" vehicle to any naturally aspirated vehicle. But if I park one expy next to another, start them both up, and one rattles like a musical instrument and one doesn't, something isn't right. I don't care if it doesn't effect the operation, but at some point it will. Unless your manufacturing tolerances are that bad, it's shouldn't be happening. Noise is by nature vibration, anything spinning over 100k RPM's, experiencing vibration will eventually wear out, to me an answer like that is basically kicking the can down the road.
And I by no means blame the dealer or tech you're working with, that answer from Ford is pretty crap IMHO. I'm glad that mine hasn't denied it at all, and will start one place and go from there. I'm surprised that we got such different responses from Ford. But at the same time, I'm pretty nervous about these guys tearing apart the front of my engine. I hope that in of itself doesn't cause other issues!
Sorry to hear you're experiencing this. To me, as I drive down the road, I'm somewhat embarrassed that this shiny new vehicle sounds like an old Ford Probe with half a missing exhaust.
And I by no means blame the dealer or tech you're working with, that answer from Ford is pretty crap IMHO. I'm glad that mine hasn't denied it at all, and will start one place and go from there. I'm surprised that we got such different responses from Ford. But at the same time, I'm pretty nervous about these guys tearing apart the front of my engine. I hope that in of itself doesn't cause other issues!
Sorry to hear you're experiencing this. To me, as I drive down the road, I'm somewhat embarrassed that this shiny new vehicle sounds like an old Ford Probe with half a missing exhaust.
aggiegrad05
Full Access Members
100%. I don't think it's affecting the vehicle at all, but...
Yesterday a buddy and I walked down to our cars from the office together. He got in his Yukon Denali and I got in mine. We both fired them up and his gave a nice grumble while mine sounded like a 1989 Ponitac with busted motor mounts. Luckily it goes away after a few minutes.
We'll see what the shop foreman says, but I'm not going to be a jerk about it if they tell me there's nothing to be done...I have an extended warranty for another 5 years so I'm covered if the thing grenades itself or anything.
Is there a TSB for the turbo rattle?
Mine is at the dealer now for the cam phasers, popping mirrors and transmission noise. I put the wastegate rattle on the repair list, but the service adviser didn't mention it when I talked to him yesterday.
Mine is at the dealer now for the cam phasers, popping mirrors and transmission noise. I put the wastegate rattle on the repair list, but the service adviser didn't mention it when I talked to him yesterday.
I am pretty sure the phasers on 5.0l Mustang are torque actuated and have little to no problems. Most of these are run pretty hard. The V6 Truck/SUV phaser are hydraulic. I am not sure why Ford would have two designs. I am guessing, it has something to do with towing vs high performance. My last trip to the dealer on Monday, I asked about the 'new' 2021 Expedition. The sales manager said still no V8 option. He went on an on how he 'prefers' the turbo motor and gets in the 20's with MPG. We took his demo F150 with a 2.7l, for a spin. He beat the snot out of it and it ran pretty strong(don't ever buy a ex-demo). He claims the 2.7l, it a better motor. He also confirmed there will a option of 'third row seat delete', which I think is awesome. The Tahoe has it and it drops the price $4200. I priced a 2021 XLT third row delete for $57K, he said with rebates $52-55K.
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I want to drive the d
I want to drive the GMC Yukon diesel and been looking for a low mileage 2017 or newer Escalade. I also want to drive the 450hp Navigator. My current Expedition only has 110K miles. It is in good condition and it has so many new parts, it's a shame to change. However, I never would say no, to another new Expedition. If they had a diesel or V8, it would be a deal closer.
Gumby
Full Access Members
Just got diagnosed with a bad water pump (coolant leak was the symptom). Parts on order out of the States. 7-10 days delay. Cost for the part ~$660 CDN plus install. Not covered. I tried to plead Cam Phaser issues and them going into the engine causing it, but they didn't buy it.
Also they are doing the rear pinion seal as it was also leaking...FFS
what’s wrong with these guys. The water pump is $120 at the dealer!
Mine has an original water pump and uses the green coolant. Kind of pathetic a 2018 already needs one.
Gumby
Full Access Members
This is the 3rd "coolant leak" for my 2018. Both previous times it was the lines to the transmission. Now, its the water pump. Could it have been tweaked or damaged when they did the Phasers in May? IDK, but seems ironic they were in there fiddling around then and 5 months later the pump is done...grrrr
Vipersinu2
Full Access Members
My Navigator has been in the shop all week.
I brought it in for the emblem light out and low oil level.
I asked why the oil was low, 2500 miles and very low oil.
They said b/c the oil was never changed?
I said to the manager,
You changed my cam phasers, then a few months later replaced the turbo, and never changed the oil?
When I picked up the truck after the turbo change, the oil was low, I brought the truck back to the dealer to top off the oil.
2500 miles later the oil is black and very low.
Their excuse was it b/c the oil was never changed.
What BS that is. 1st they should of changed the oil when the cam phasers were replaced, and when the turbo was replaced.
I can only imagine what crud is in the oil pan. From rtv and gasket material, or antifreeze that can leak into the pan.
As far as the low oil issue because oil was never changed is also BS
This is after the turbo change, the dealer did not top off the oil
This is after the oil was topped off with 2500 miles on oil
I brought it in for the emblem light out and low oil level.
I asked why the oil was low, 2500 miles and very low oil.
They said b/c the oil was never changed?
I said to the manager,
You changed my cam phasers, then a few months later replaced the turbo, and never changed the oil?
When I picked up the truck after the turbo change, the oil was low, I brought the truck back to the dealer to top off the oil.
2500 miles later the oil is black and very low.
Their excuse was it b/c the oil was never changed.
What BS that is. 1st they should of changed the oil when the cam phasers were replaced, and when the turbo was replaced.
I can only imagine what crud is in the oil pan. From rtv and gasket material, or antifreeze that can leak into the pan.
As far as the low oil issue because oil was never changed is also BS
This is after the turbo change, the dealer did not top off the oil
This is after the oil was topped off with 2500 miles on oil
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5280tunage
Full Access Members
@Vipersinu2 - Curious, and I'm not saying you're wrong as this vehicle is new to me, but why would they need to change the oil with a new turbo? None of my previous turbo vehicles needed that for example when I replaced my turbos (literally I did it) as the turbos weren't using engine oil. Are these different?
But also, my expy is in getting the phaser issues replaced, I double checked with them that they are doing the oil so I sure hope so. As this thread is about turbo rattles, here's what really annoys me, I broth mine in with both turbos rattling at 10k miles. It's so loud, going through say a drive through slowly sounds like a loose exhaust.
Regardless, what really makes me mad, is that after using stethoscopes on the turbos (both me and the dealer), we can hear the turbos rattling but Ford told them to do the phasers first. So rip apart the engine when you maybe didn't have to? Geez. I'm pissed but we'll see what happens. So far, my first Ford is not giving me a good impression, and neither is their treatment of people that buy a $80K+ vehicle.
But also, my expy is in getting the phaser issues replaced, I double checked with them that they are doing the oil so I sure hope so. As this thread is about turbo rattles, here's what really annoys me, I broth mine in with both turbos rattling at 10k miles. It's so loud, going through say a drive through slowly sounds like a loose exhaust.
Regardless, what really makes me mad, is that after using stethoscopes on the turbos (both me and the dealer), we can hear the turbos rattling but Ford told them to do the phasers first. So rip apart the engine when you maybe didn't have to? Geez. I'm pissed but we'll see what happens. So far, my first Ford is not giving me a good impression, and neither is their treatment of people that buy a $80K+ vehicle.
Vipersinu2
Full Access Members
5280tunage
There is both antifreeze and oil going to the turbos.
There is both antifreeze and oil going to the turbos.
JasonH
Full Access Members
Changing oil during repair is cheap insurance. If any sealer, metal, or fluids contaminate the oil or leak out that a chance to catch it. Sucks folks are having issues with these vehicles. They're way too expensive to need this sort of work. The throttle body in my 2017 failed yesterday at 107,000 miles. Thankfully the part was only $110, but the failure was random and the inlet was covered with oil residue, which tells me that a catch can is in order. I'd be wary of driving one these outside the warranty period.
Gumby
Full Access Members
In the SSM for the Phasers, an oil change is included. If they did the same SSM as me (they changed two phasers at this point) and did not do the oil change (but likely charged Ford for that "work") then they are scammers.
Vipersinu2
Full Access Members
You might be right on the scam parts, The Dealer is also changing a driver side ac vent were a crome trim piece fell off off the vent luvers.
I went to the dealer yesterday to check up on the truck, The dealer said they ordered 2 vents b/c the passagner side trim was falling off also, I went and took a look and a took a video, All the other vents were fine. It will be instersting to see if the dealer bills for two vents when I pick up the truck, If the dealer charges for 2 vents or 1 vent under warranty, if they bill for 2 vents, I should send the video to Lincoln.
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