Dealer can't program pat key

[Kk4yvx]

I have a 06 expy 4wd (53,000 miles)
I just bought the truck about a month and a half ago. It was a police k-9 truck. All police equipment was removed.
The truck came with one key and a fob. I took the key to the hardware store where they told me they don't have blanks because the key for my truck has a chip.
So to the Ford dealer I go. That was monday morning. The next day the dealership called me because they say they tried to program the 2 new uncut keys I gave them(bought on eBay) but could not. It turns out that the one key I gave them(the one that came with the truck) DOES NOT have a chip. Apparently the police made changes to the system so that they can use an unlimited number of keys with no chips.
Now the dealership cannot even get the truck to start with the key that came with it and they say they are waiting for help from a company that specializes in vehicle alarms.
My question is this : who will be responsible for all this extra labor? Me or the dealer?
I had agreed to pay the $75 when I first dropped off the truck, but now they have been mentioning extra labor.
I could have had the key cut at the hardware store for $3.!!! And in 2 minutes. Today is wednsday and they still have'nt figured it out yet.

 

[stamp11127]

I would say it is your nickel. Would you expect them to know the system has been modified without being warned about the changes? They are going in assuming no changes have been made and that it is a stock system. It would be a different story had they been warned prior to working on it.
Might try getting in touch with the maintenance facility that the police use and see what changes they make to police vehicles.

 

[emtmark]

All our ambulances get the same treatment (also fords) we lose keys like crazy. Can't even imagine how much it would cost to buy or make all those rfid keys. You can always pay the 75$ and ask for the car back but with it now not starting and what sounds like the computer in full rebellion it might be better to let them run with it.


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[Gruz7]

I am a locksmith and personally I probably program anywhere from 2-10 keys a day and one thing that is required (at least for us) is that key must have cuts in it and it must work in the ignition in order for our machine to program the chip to the computer. Normally we charge about $125 for a basic "chip" key to be cut using the VIN and then programmed to the car or truck. Pretty sure we beat most dealers prices (at least around here) on the keys cut and programmed. Also if you do get them cut there are OBP (on-board-programming) options for most vehicles that allow you to basically turn the key a few times waiting some time in between each turn and that will program the key to the car/truck.

 

[Kk4yvx]

A few minutes after I submited my post, the dealership called me, and this is what they said:
Someone from the specialized alarm company worked on the truck and found out that the circuit from the ignition to the starter was open in 3 places. I will not be charged for that work because they said the dealership was not charged. So tomorrow morning they will give me an estimate on how much it is going to cost to bypass what the police did and run a wire from the ignition system to the starter. This way they will be able to program the pat2 keys.
I'll find out how much it will cost.
I think that, being a dealership that works on police cars, they should have know that programing the keys would be an issue. But that's just my opinion.

 

[k9education]

If the PATS has been bypassed/disabled, can't you just go pick up your truck and then pay for a non-chipped copy at essentially any shop that makes keys? Honestly, no one is going to steal an '06 Expedition.

 

[Lostneye]

I understand that some municipalities don't want pats and I believe some years it was available disabled fromt the dealer. I had two former police Crown Vics and one had two keys when I got it so I don't know they other didn't have pats. They usually have one key for the whole car(not a separate key for the trunk).

I don't understand if it was disabled why you would need to have chipped keys. And if it was not why they couldn't program new keys.

FYI I know this doesn't help OP but if you have two keys you can program additional keys without any equipment. I have bought original Lincoln keys on ebay cut with a pic I emailed the locksmith of an existing key for 2 different vehicles for like $20 a key

 

[Kk4yvx]

If the PATS has been bypassed/disabled, can't you just go pick up your truck and then pay for a non-chipped copy at essentially any shop that makes keys? Honestly, no one is going to steal an '06 Expedition.

The truck now won't start after their failed attempt to program pats

 

[Kk4yvx]

I understand that some municipalities don't want pats and I believe some years it was available disabled fromt the dealer. I had two former police Crown Vics and one had two keys when I got it so I don't know they other didn't have pats. They usually have one key for the whole car(not a separate key for the trunk).

I don't understand if it was disabled why you would need to have chipped keys. And if it was not why they couldn't program new keys.

FYI I know this doesn't help OP but if you have two keys you can program additional keys without any equipment. I have bought original Lincoln keys on ebay cut with a pic I emailed the locksmith of an existing key for 2 different vehicles for like $20 a key

No one knew Pats was disabed, only after the dealership tried to program it and failed , which made it impossible to start thr truck with any key.
They said they will run a wire directly from the ignition to the starter. I said let's do that, start the truck , and then no need t program the pats.
I am waiting for them to call.
What could have been a 2 minute-$3 job at the local hardware store has now taken 4 days and still counting...

 

[Lostneye]

Okay I get it. Truck was purchased with pats delete so there is no pats module. Dealer programmed key in computer which now cannot read key and their solution is to bypass pats entirely. Or something to that affect.

Some vehicles the fuel delivery is part of pats as well. I have no idea if these trucks are starter only or fuel as well. But if so jumping the starter will not fix the issue.

 

[Kk4yvx]

Okay I get it. Truck was purchased with pats delete so there is no pats module. Dealer programmed key in computer which now cannot read key and their solution is to bypass pats entirely. Or something to that affect.

Some vehicles the fuel delivery is part of pats as well. I have no idea if these trucks are starter only or fuel as well. But if so jumping the starter will not fix the issue.

You are right, the dealership just called and said that jumping the starter did not work, the engine would crank but not turn on.
They say they hope they'll get it going tomorrow.
I guess for now I just have to keep using the wife's vw touareg...which I don't mind

 

[emtmark]

Precisely why the term mechanic should be on par with some other advanced degree like Masters or something. Dealership technicians are, by and large good guessing (with the help of onboard diagnostics) parts changers. There are a few mechanics mixed in there to help with the atypical stuff but really they toss it on the computer and change the part that's bad, see if it worked. Wash rinse repeat until the complaint goes away. To understand intimately and be able to extrapolate the possible problems from such complex machines and accurately diagnose issue/fix is truly a dedicated talent.
Their reports to you only highlight the obvious that they are following some flowchart and not thinking ahead. Billing more hours and costing you money.
I spend hours and hours pouring over forums learning this stuff so if one day I'm sitting there I can have an inkling of what the eff is going on.
I'm not saying every body at the dealers is a parts changer but there more the exception than the rule. The parts changers know who they are and after a few months if they haven't started to put the effort into truly learning the ins outs and interactions of their brands systems then parts changers they will remain.
Today I learned PATS is tied to fuel system as well as starter, another nugget filed away. Thank you for sharing your trials and tribulations so others may learn. Thank you others for sharing what you know and educating the rest of us [emoji16]


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[Lostneye]

Can they completely reflash the computer and start from scratch? If not at this point I would be pushing for a new computer at their expense instead of hack wiring band aid fixes.

 

[Kk4yvx]

I just left the dealership, they are starting from scratch. They said the new ebay keys I gave them didn't work, so they are now trying to program keys from their parts dept.
They will let me know how it turns out later today.
...the saga continues...!!!

 

[emtmark]

Keep the updates rolling


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[k9education]

Precisely why the term mechanic should be on par with some other advanced degree like Masters or something. Dealership technicians are, by and large good guessing (with the help of onboard diagnostics) parts changers. There are a few mechanics mixed in there to help with the atypical stuff but really they toss it on the computer and change the part that's bad, see if it worked. Wash rinse repeat until the complaint goes away.

You nailed it. I have been going to independent mechanics for as long as I can remember. For the last decade or so, I have only gone to 3 different shops and all 3 have managed to fix my problems without tossing the entire pan of s**t at the wall just to see what sticks.

In May I purchased a Ford CPO Expedition. In the last 3 months I have made SIX trips to Ford dealerships (5 to the same dealership) in order to get a few simple problems fixed. It took me 3 trips to get a faulty rear view camera replaced. It took me 5 trips to get a faulty passenger side running board assembly replaced. It has taken me 3 trips thus far for the driver side running board and the problem still persists. I am only continuing to deal with them because I have a warranty for another 9K miles. When it's done, I will take my business back to my independent mechanics as I have done for the last 20 years.

I just left the dealership, they are starting from scratch. They said the new ebay keys I gave them didn't work, so they are now trying to program keys from their parts dept.
They will let me know how it turns out later today.
...the saga continues...!!!

Wait ... They said they can't program any keys because the PATS was disabled, but now they're going to try to program their own keys? So are they now saying the PATS has been re-enabled? They sound completely lost.

 

[emtmark]

May I pm you about he rearview? Mine turns on randomly ****** the wife off to no end, end thread jack


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[emtmark]

Soooooo didja get it goin?


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[Kk4yvx]

Sorry about the delay, been kinda busy.
I did get the truck back five days after I took it in . Damage was $575.00 for programmed keys that I really did not need. If I had known, I would have made me a non-chipped copy for 3 dollars. Because all I needed was a spare key.Oh well!!!
They reprogrammed the PATS, but now the door lock buttons don't work!!!
Before they worked fine and all doors automatically locked as soon as I start the engine. Not anymore!!
So I'll probably and reluctantly, take it back to them as soon as I get some free time

 

[k9education]

Sorry about the delay, been kinda busy.
I did get the truck back five days after I took it in . Damage was $575.00 for programmed keys that I really did not need. If I had known, I would have made me a non-chipped copy for 3 dollars. Because all I needed was a spare key.Oh well!!!
They reprogrammed the PATS, but now the door lock buttons don't work!!!
Before they worked fine and all doors automatically locked as soon as I start the engine. Not anymore!!
So I'll probably and reluctantly, take it back to them as soon as I get some free time

Damn! I would have protested paying anything. If I was forced to, I'd probably be down at the magistrate filing for small claims.

These dealerships are all crooked. I just found out from Ford that there should be NO diagnostics fee for anyone with a CPO warranty and yet 2 dealerships tried to charge me one. The only reason I found out I was never supposed to pay it is because I complained to Ford about it.