Deadman
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Replacement will be the same low end tire.
Disappointing 4WD performance on snow.
- Thread starter jastevenson
- Start date
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joethefordguy
Full Access Members
There isn't any additional info because this claim is nonsense. You've hit the nail on the head. it's amazing the number of people that believe this kind of idiocy. I hate to be rude, but this is one of the stupidest myths people sign up for. They refuse to think for 2 seconds about how obviously stupid such a statement is. ask an insurance agent how stupid this is.
the so called 'whistleblowers' claiming to have seen this are liars. prove me wrong.
joethefordguy
Full Access Members
********. if it's the same tire, it is the SAME TIRE. if it's not the same tire, it's a different model, size, whatever. Not the same tire.
if it's a defect, only a lunatic would let it go for sale. lawyers would love this
you people have got to stop with this lying. what the hell are you hoping to gain with this?
Fizzy
Full Access Members
2020 platinum, with Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 winter tires on.
Up here it’s been up steep grade mountain roads with sheet ice, 4ft of snow on logging trails in the mountains, all over the Rockies, Purcells, Kananaskis etc in -35c (-31f), and hasn’t skipped a beat.
You can have all the electronic and mechanical traction aids you want - but the only thing between you and the road is the rubber. All that technology has to go through your rubber to negotiate with the road surface. It’s arguably one of the most important parts of your drive train.
Oh, and as others have mentioned, the stock so-called “all season” Hankooks are trash. They’re on the stock rims for summer use only.
Edit: oh yeah, and 4A does take some slip to engage the front wheels. When I know I’m going to be in the slippery stuff I stick it in Snow mode. It sends power to the front all the time.
Up here it’s been up steep grade mountain roads with sheet ice, 4ft of snow on logging trails in the mountains, all over the Rockies, Purcells, Kananaskis etc in -35c (-31f), and hasn’t skipped a beat.
You can have all the electronic and mechanical traction aids you want - but the only thing between you and the road is the rubber. All that technology has to go through your rubber to negotiate with the road surface. It’s arguably one of the most important parts of your drive train.
Oh, and as others have mentioned, the stock so-called “all season” Hankooks are trash. They’re on the stock rims for summer use only.
Edit: oh yeah, and 4A does take some slip to engage the front wheels. When I know I’m going to be in the slippery stuff I stick it in Snow mode. It sends power to the front all the time.
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lefty hack
Well-Known Member
2018 Max Plati....I spend a lot of time in the southern UT mountains.... I bought Discount tire AT pathfinders... put them on smaller rims ...Snow mode...it does great. I had the 22 OEMs and it wasn't good. good price on the tires.... super quiet and great in the snow.
5280tunage
Full Access Members
Ha ha, love this. You must be right then.
itll be the same tire (or equivalent if they’ve updated the spec fitted on new vehicles).
tire shops/dealers are urged not to mix different tires on a vehicle. If a must, they recommend same tires per axle minimum. If they are doing only one, it’s to match the same tire on the other side.
Thunderbirdsport
Full Access Members
I have no axe to grind in this hoopla, but I think I'd follow the words of the fella that's worked in tires for X amount of years over someone who's only dealings with tires is seeing them on his expedition as he walking up to get in it...
carymccarr
Full Access Members
It could very well be true. But if auto manufacturers spec out tires with inferior tread and rubber compound that also carry identical DOT identifiers and are only available to that manufacturer it would be very well documented.
Again, it could very well be true (it would make sense for it to be true actually) but I take much pride in not falling for conspiracies (which is all the rage these days) and would need actual documentation before I fully believe it.
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Wangle
Full Access Members
This is not a conspiracy theory, or a secret. Just look at the UTQG rating on the stock tire. My STOCK Toyo Open Country UTQG rating is 300, marked right on the tire. VERY low rating. Same low rating on all of my original tires since 1991. 300-360.
carymccarr
Full Access Members
My stocks read: Treadwear 700
Wife’s stocks read: Treadwear 480
I’m not arguing that the manufacturer uses
A mediocre tire, I’m just pushing back on them using tires, with identical DOTs as other generally available tires with different rubber compounds and tread depths.
300 tread tires are readily available so I’m not arguing that point.
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Thunderbirdsport
Full Access Members
What about tires from wal mart, for example?
My experience with their goodyear wranglers left me swearing to never put that shit on any vehicle of mine ever again.
Then I actually did it again December 2019. I put Goodyear Wrangler Trailmarks on my Explorer.
Had to get two replaced September '20. Probably not so much the tire's issue as it was having a hole in the sidewall of one, and then hitting a piece of metal as big as my thumb on the highway (in my defense I didn't see the metal, probably couldn't have seen it anyway).
Otherwise, those particular Goodyears have held up well. I had a set put on my Mountaineer in 2012 and those were the junkiest pieces of shit I've had on a vehicle since 1993.
A friend of mine said the same thing about some cheaper tires he had mounted on his truck...
My experience with their goodyear wranglers left me swearing to never put that shit on any vehicle of mine ever again.
Then I actually did it again December 2019. I put Goodyear Wrangler Trailmarks on my Explorer.
Had to get two replaced September '20. Probably not so much the tire's issue as it was having a hole in the sidewall of one, and then hitting a piece of metal as big as my thumb on the highway (in my defense I didn't see the metal, probably couldn't have seen it anyway).
Otherwise, those particular Goodyears have held up well. I had a set put on my Mountaineer in 2012 and those were the junkiest pieces of shit I've had on a vehicle since 1993.
A friend of mine said the same thing about some cheaper tires he had mounted on his truck...
How is this still going?
Who cares at this point?
Some people have no issues with the OEM tires they are OK. Like I said above, I will not do the same when I go to replace them, but they are fine.
If you don’t like them, put a different set on...pretty simple.
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Who cares at this point?
Some people have no issues with the OEM tires they are OK. Like I said above, I will not do the same when I go to replace them, but they are fine.
If you don’t like them, put a different set on...pretty simple.
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Agreed - everyone has different experiences with tires. Every product out there you’ll see wildly varying reviews.
One bit of confusion on this board to clarify.
DOT code - alpha numeric code given to a specific tire (pattern, compound, materials, shape) to create traceability in the market. Each tire will have an 8 digit unique code, which includes plant identifier. If something major has updated, like compound, materials, shaping, etc...it will most likely be different in this 8 digit code.
UTQG rating is the traction, temperature and wear rating of a tire. These ratings are extremely loose on their application and consistency. They are a minimum value, which means a tire must meet at minimum this rating. Reason of inconsistency is that it can be expensive to certify each tire for full tread wear, so there’s a good chance that there are tires that are estimated for performance based on extrapolated data , while estimating the rating on the conservative side (or face penalties if the tire is audited and doesn’t meet the ratings.) Therefore, it’s common for different tires of similar product range to have the same rating, but each tire can have some decent variation in actual performance, but ultimately on the safe side.
If you get a poor performing tire for wear (with proper usage and setup), most likely it’s on the low end of variation, most likely right at the UTQG value. Others higher performing are probably conservative in their rating.
One bit of confusion on this board to clarify.
DOT code - alpha numeric code given to a specific tire (pattern, compound, materials, shape) to create traceability in the market. Each tire will have an 8 digit unique code, which includes plant identifier. If something major has updated, like compound, materials, shaping, etc...it will most likely be different in this 8 digit code.
UTQG rating is the traction, temperature and wear rating of a tire. These ratings are extremely loose on their application and consistency. They are a minimum value, which means a tire must meet at minimum this rating. Reason of inconsistency is that it can be expensive to certify each tire for full tread wear, so there’s a good chance that there are tires that are estimated for performance based on extrapolated data , while estimating the rating on the conservative side (or face penalties if the tire is audited and doesn’t meet the ratings.) Therefore, it’s common for different tires of similar product range to have the same rating, but each tire can have some decent variation in actual performance, but ultimately on the safe side.
If you get a poor performing tire for wear (with proper usage and setup), most likely it’s on the low end of variation, most likely right at the UTQG value. Others higher performing are probably conservative in their rating.
carymccarr
Full Access Members
Yeah it’s not whether people like crappy
Oem. The question is whether Ford puts top secret low quality tires on their vehicles. So far most say yes yet zero people can document it.
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Deadman
Full Access Members
I don't think they are top secret. I just think the tires they put on at factory are the cheapest they can get their hands on and are usually specifically made for that car. The manufacturer of the tires still offers those tires to the general public, because most people go to dealer and say "new tires please" and the dealer puts those right back on it because they cost them the least........ Nothing top secret, just low quality parts they can buy cheapest.
carymccarr
Full Access Members
Nobody is doubting that I don’t think. I’m certainly not.
The question is whether there are tires only used by manufacturers and when you get replacements at the tire shop (same Dot numbers [maybe different plant number etc though]) the tires are a different tread depth and rubber compound etc.
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5280tunage
Full Access Members
While some might be saying same DOT number, my specific example was that while working at tire shops, we quite often got tires in that were stock, and needed to be replaced. We would often replace them with the exact same brand, model, size, series, and the aftermarket tire was slightly different. Different tread depth, different compound, etc. and it DID have a different DOT number. My case is essentially saying yes, the manufacturers sell OEM specific versions of a common tire that you can't buy retail.
Armin
Active Member
If they have the same DOT number, they are the same tires. There are lots of legal implications if a tire company would sell two quality levels with the same numbers in accidents, warranty, recalls. And if a customer replaces two tires and they get mixed up during rotations, you can have issues too. Plus it would open up a scam business opportunity mixing the supply chains hurting the tire company and again opening them up for legal issues. Etc etc.
Tire companies already have enough issues with the same tires from different factories, let alone they would add to this. Same DOT is same tire.
Yes, OEM tires are often cheap and less than other options. Yes, OEM tires are often made specifically for OEM purposes. No, OEM tires are not secretly lower quality than the same tire model/DOT you buy later in a tire shop.
Tire companies already have enough issues with the same tires from different factories, let alone they would add to this. Same DOT is same tire.
Yes, OEM tires are often cheap and less than other options. Yes, OEM tires are often made specifically for OEM purposes. No, OEM tires are not secretly lower quality than the same tire model/DOT you buy later in a tire shop.
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