EcoBoosts, Fuel, Octane, Ethanol and Tuning...

[KJ-Idaho]

this is the correct physics. All other performance aspects being equal, more octane/hp, with the same level of Throttle pressure (gas pedal) applied, the engine will work effectively less hard to achieve the same level of performance. Higher hp/torque at lower rpm will result in better economy with access to more power if applied, with a correlating decrease in economy when that power is used.

real world results: I get about 1.2 mpg better economy around town with my 5Star/NGauge tuner performance tune and a light foot, relative to my stock tune (17.4 vs 18.6).

I can easily drive my economy numbers down by 3-5 mpg or more when I am having fun leaving Big block RAMs and Chevys at stoplights.

Also, my NGauge performance numbers with 91-93 are significantly better than the standard tune from Ford. I see a full one second decrease in my 0-60 times using NGauge/5Star tune and 91 or better fuel.

yay.

 

[JasonH]

Is there anyway to tell when it’s pulling timing and fuel? That would be great info to track. I have never heard any of my EB’s knock, but that doesn’t mean it’s not de fueling or pulling trimming.


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Octane adjust and knock counter are available in the torque app.

 

[LokiWolf]

Octane adjust and knock counter are available in the torque app.

The Torque app in my opinion is not as good as OBDLink on iPhone for look at simple info/gauges.


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[LovinPSDs]

I did my first 6000 or so miles on 87 octane and the last 7000 or so on 91 (highest available) and have not seen any difference in daily mpg. My highway mpg varies too much with wind conditions to see any difference yet (first 6000 had a lot of highway trips).

Side note, without keeping a log book this would be impossible because the dang trip computer is off as much as 1.5 mpg and it isn't consistent.

Check out the app “Fuelly” I’ve been using it forever and you can add notes and such for each one... I track all the mileage on my old diesel truck with it. Makes me sad haha

 

[flying68]

Check out the app “Fuelly” I’ve been using it forever and you can add notes and such for each one... I track all the mileage on my old diesel truck with it. Makes me sad haha

The reviews on Google Play for Fuelly are horendous, just a quick scan shows it is mostly because they don't develop the Android App. Paper works for me, easy and always there in the truck, even when the wife drives and has to fill up.

 

[scotthere]

My 2 cents. Don't forget that ambient air temperature and humidity have a significant effect on combustion efficiency. Hot days = less power for the same octane, high humidity = less power also. Elevation also has an impact for those in mountainous areas. You would need to add the weather to any accurate evaluation. Example, a cold snap could net better mileage on 85 octane than hot days on 93 octane maybe. Numbers in Florida will be on average worse than at sea-level up north. For best results death valley in the winter.

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[Mike Wolfe]

Good morning all
I have owned 6 ECOBOOST Vehicles
All of them were recalibrated (tuned)
They are
2011 F150 3.5L (LIvernois)
2013 Flex with 3.5L (Livernois)
2013 Taurus SHO with PP 3.5L (Livernois)
2016 Explorer Sport (Livernois)
2018 Expedition (current vehicle) (5 Star)
2018 F150 3.5L (wife thought it was too large for her to drive) (5 Star)
2020 Explorer ST (current vehicle) (5 Star)
The E50 calibrations produce prodigious amounts of power but it is often hard to find E85
93 octane calibrations offer a tremendous improvement in throttle response, overall driveability & trans shifting quality but nowhere near the performance of the E50 calibrations
Although I have them I have never tried 87 & 91 octane calibrations
I will not even use 87 octane "CRAP FUEL" in my lawnmower
As far as I am concerned the Fossil fuels industry should not even be able to sell anything below 91 octane (watch this blow up with the NAYSAYERS)
Most OEM powertrain engineers agree with my consensus (i have worked with them for over 50 years)
I have never paid much attention to mileage differences as I am more interested in the performance improvements of the tunes
Our 2018 EXPY averages 22.1 mpg in mixed driving (according to onboard readouts) with 93 octane tune & running 91 octane E10
Mileage average dropped about 15% with the E50 calibrations but performance differences were huge
I am 75 years old & still lovin it
Just my experience & two cents worth

 

[LokiWolf]

Good morning all
I have owned 6 ECOBOOST Vehicles
All of them were recalibrated (tuned)
They are
2011 F150 3.5L (LIvernois)
2013 Flex with 3.5L (Livernois)
2013 Taurus SHO with PP 3.5L (Livernois)
2016 Explorer Sport (Livernois)
2018 Expedition (current vehicle) (5 Star)
2018 F150 3.5L (wife thought it was too large for her to drive) (5 Star)
2020 Explorer ST (current vehicle) (5 Star)
The E50 calibrations produce prodigious amounts of power but it is often hard to find E85
93 octane calibrations offer a tremendous improvement in throttle response, overall driveability & trans shifting quality but nowhere near the performance of the E50 calibrations
Although I have them I have never tried 87 & 91 octane calibrations
I will not even use 87 octane "CRAP FUEL" in my lawnmower
As far as I am concerned the Fossil fuels industry should not even be able to sell anything below 91 octane (watch this blow up with the NAYSAYERS)
Most OEM powertrain engineers agree with my consensus (i have worked with them for over 50 years)
I have never paid much attention to mileage differences as I am more interested in the performance improvements of the tunes
Our 2018 EXPY averages 22.1 mpg in mixed driving (according to onboard readouts) with 93 octane tune & running 91 octane E10
Mileage average dropped about 15% with the E50 calibrations but performance differences were huge
I am 75 years old & still lovin it
Just my experience & two cents worth

This...All of This!

 

[kjf1]

Please remember when comparing MPG with different fuels you should drive the same route and pay attention to air inlet temperature "MCT".
Higher air inlet temperature will decrease spark and therefore hurt performance / mileage.

 

[LokiWolf]

To Follow Mike's example...I have owned 5 EB powered vehicles.

2015 Limited 4x4 Max(Came from Canada) Expedition 3.5TT - Wife's Primary(Totaled) - HyperTech (93)
2016 Edge Sport 2.7LTT - My Primary - LMS (93, E30), ZFG (93, E50, E70) - Daily for the last 6 months of ownership was E70.
2017 Limited 4x4 EL Expedition 3.5TT - Wife's Primary(Replaced 2015 Expedition) - HyperTech (93), ZFG (93, E30)
2020 Explorer ST 3.0LTT - My Primary(Replaced Edge Sport) - ZFG (93, E50) - Daily E50
2020 Limited 4x4 Max Expedition 3.5LTT - Wife's Primary(Replaced 2017 Expy) - Hypertech (93), LMS (93), ZFG (93, E50)

More on the tunes on the 2020 Later.

 

[rjdelp7]

Jeep just announced the V8(6.4l 392) is back in the Wrangler. They choose today, the day the Bronco is released. Wanna bet Ford puts the V8 in the Expedition and future Bronco. Hey Lokiwolf please post a video, actually pumping E50 in your 2020(that only allows only E15). Then drive it 20mi and lets see if you get a CEL. PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.

 

[LokiWolf]

Jeep just announced the V8(6.4l 392) is back in the Wrangler. They choose today, the day the Bronco is released. Wanna bet Ford puts the V8 in the Expedition and future Bronco. Hey Lokiwolf please post a video, actually pumping E50 in your 2020(that only allows only E15). Then drive it 20mi and lets see if you get a CEL. PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.

HaHa! You are the definition of a Troll. Again, the first sentence you say in a thread that has nothing to do with the subject of the thread is about a FCA V8. It seems to be your default playbook.

I DO practice what I preach. I put E85 mixed with 93(E10) to get to E50 weekly in my Explorer. My Explorer is stock except for fuel and tune.

Won't be trying the E50 tune on the Expedition until later this Summer. Progressing through different tuners, and testing performance for those that care and actually own a EB powered Expedition.

Again, CANNOT do it on a Stock Tune. Have to be tuned for E50. Contrary to what you think it requires ZERO physical changes to the vehicle.

I defined what the manual clearly says in the first 2 posts in this thread. Please, just go back under your rock. I created this thread to discuss Octane, Tunes, and Ethanol. None of which you should care about...well cause you think it is all crap. I will not be responding to you anymore in this thread. Others can, but you and what you say has ZERO value to me. You have proven through many posts in many threads to have ZERO idea what you are talking about.

 

[rjdelp7]

HaHa! You are the definition of a Troll. Again, the first sentence you say in a thread that has nothing to do with the subject of the thread is about a FCA V8. It seems to be your default playbook.

I DO practice what I preach. I put E85 mixed with 93(E10) to get to E50 weekly in my Explorer. My Explorer is stock except for fuel and tune.

Won't be trying the E50 tune on the Expedition until later this Summer. Progressing through different tuners, and testing performance for those that care and actually own a EB powered Expedition.

Again, CANNOT do it on a Stock Tune. Have to be tuned for E50. Contrary to what you think it requires ZERO physical changes to the vehicle.

I defined what the manual clearly says in the first 2 posts in this thread. Please, just go back under your rock. I created this thread to discuss Octane, Tunes, and Ethanol. None of which you should care about...well cause you think it is all crap. I will not be responding to you anymore in this thread. Others can, but you and what you say has ZERO value to me. You have proven through many posts in many threads to have ZERO idea what you are talking about.

So...your advising other owners on something you have not done? When you actually do it, please post back with a video. Let's see some vids, of the 'super explorer' also. Until then you get my eye roll...

 

[LokiWolf]

For those that want to see some proof...here is the text and links.

Here is straight off of BrewCityBoost's Website for Ethanol content the Stock Pumps can handle with their tuning based on Motor. The 2018+ Expeditions have the same 2nd Gen 3.5TT the current F150's have:

Ethanol: Running an ethanol mixed fuel is an inexpensive way to increase the octane rating of your fuel. The percentage of ethanol a stock F150 will support will vary by production year, or if the truck has an upgraded HPFP. If you live in a colder climate an ethanol mixed tune may not be advised to run in the winter. Typical ethanol mixed tune limits for stock fueling systems are:

• 2011-2016 3.5L F150 – E30
• 2017+ 3.5 F150 – E50
• 2015-2017 2.7L F150 – E30
• 2018+ 2.7L F150 – up to 100% E85

https://www.brewcityboost.com/product/ecoboost-f150-tune-file-for-ngauge-hpt-mvpi-2/
​

Here is straight from 5Star:

Our e50 tune nets 553 horsepower on our 2018 F150 3.5L Ecoboost 4wd 150! This application is all stock with the exception of our tune file. We have the tune dialed in and have just released the new files!

https://5startuning.com/now-released-e30-e50-tunes-for-your-2017-2019-f150-3-5l-ecoboost/
​

That is 2 of the big tuners for the F150 in the business, both saying E50.

I personally ran E30 in my 2017 Expedition 2 times. Again, it was the Wife's daily driver, and the E85 equipped station was not as easy as the Kroger to fill up or it would have been run more regularly. With tuning it was FUN!!!

Pretty sure @Mike Wolfe has run 5Star's E30 or E50 tune on his 2018 Expedition? Let's see if he can give us any numbers for the new gen.

​

 

[Matthew Marlowe]

I'm running 91 octane in my 2020 Plat in regular driving mode because Exxon has the cheapest gas nearby and they don't offer any higher than 91. I also don't trust Costco gas.

Expy drives wonderfully, but considering enabling eco mode to save more $. At what point is higher octane plus eco mode the right choice? When driving primarily local only?

 

[Craigga542]

I am going to make a few general statements, and I am sure there will be some that disagree.

Fuel Octane:

• 91+ Octane is recommended in EcoBoosts, and needed to to reach factory power numbers.
• 91+ Octane will give you better MPG's.
• 87 Octane will run fine with less power and slightly less MPG's.

Fuel Ethanol Content:

• Ford Manual says E15 is the max that should be run.
• Ethanol WILL NOT damage the fuel system(Even at higher than E15).
• Max Ethanol content you should run on stock tuning is E20.(Ford allows buffer because a station labeled as E15 might not be mixed well).
• Max Ethanol that can be run with tuning on the Stock Pump is E50.
• Higher Ethanol content typically means lower MPG.

General Assumptions that are accurate:

• Greater the Octane(Within Reason) on stock tuning the greater the power. Above 93 the gains drastically decrease.
• Greater the Octane(Within Reason) on stock tuning the better the MPG. Above 93 you will see little to no difference.
• Greater the Ethanol the less the MPG.
• Greatest Power Levels on Stock tuning, within parameters of the Manual, are attained with E15 Treated 93 Octane Premium.
• Greatest MPG's on Stock tuning, within parameters of the Manual are attained on 93 Premium Octane with E0.

I am playing with various Tuners and fuels on the 2020 currently and will post those results when I have them.

So far I have Tested HyperTech(87 & 93), LMS(93 & Maybe E30) currently, and ZFG Racing(93 and E50) is coming.

Why does 93 E15 create more power than 93 E0? I’m not following as the octane ratings are the same. Is it due to ethanol’s greater cooling capacity?

 

[LGE_CTS_motors]

Why does 93 E15 create more power than 93 E0? I’m not following as the octane ratings are the same. Is it due to ethanol’s greater cooling capacity?

That is exactly why, the cooler and denser air charge from ethanol allow for more power to be made.

 

[LokiWolf]

Why does 93 E15 create more power than 93 E0? I’m not following as the octane ratings are the same. Is it due to ethanol’s greater cooling capacity?

What they said...

When tuning, you can actually get more power out of 87 with E10, vs 94 with E0. That is the part that most people don’t understand. Ethanol has additional advantages other than higher Octane.

The disadvantage being lower MPG, because of lower Energy content per volume.


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[Craigga542]

Thanks guys, love all the stuff I’m learning here. Great thread

 

[rjdelp7]

Why does 93 E15 create more power than 93 E0? I’m not following as the octane ratings are the same. Is it due to ethanol’s greater cooling capacity?

Balderdash! Ethanol is an octane enhancer. It's use began after MTBE was banned. Stations in my area sell 93 octane with 10% ethanol. I use it in my Lincoln 32V V8. Octane sole purpose is anti spark knock. Lack of spark knock allows maximum timing(max power). 93 octane is 93, no matter what fuel. There is a push against future E15 sales. The current E10 mandate, is considered the highest that should be run. Ethanol absorbs water. Oil water/fuel mixing is a bad thing.