Grinding noise when turning the wheel 2019 expedition limited max

[walker40425]

Hello,

I have a 2019 Expedition Limited max that has mad the same noise for quite some time. It's a whirling type sound when you reach approx. 30 miles per hour and then a grinding sound when you turn the wheel ~ 2-5 degrees to the left. It has been the the dealership now 4 times, and the sound still exists despite what the dealer says every time I pick it up. Here are the services provided:

06/08/23: Mileage 55,602. Unable to verify a concern.

07/11/23: Mileage 56,872. Removed and replaced wheel hub/bearing per previous diag. Vehicle now operates and sounds as expected (Lie: noise is still present). Replaced front left caliper asy.

08/14/23: Mileage 58,025. Inspected vehicle and was unable to verify customers concern at this time. Performed TSB 22-2219. Checked vacuum line and pressure tested IWE and it passed. Road tested vehicle again and was unable to verify sound at this time (lie; service manager round with me after they returned vehicle and noise was still easy detected).

08/31/23: Mileage 58,407. Verified concern. Noise sounds coming from IWE's used chassis ear and verified noise coming from IWE. Replaced both front IWE and retest. Noise improved, but not resolved. Lift vehicle and run in 4x4. Excessive noise coming from internal of front diff. Recommend tear down to assess damages. Removed and disassembled front Diff. Found side bearing race pitted and burred heavily. Bearing seizing. Damages to gears. Replaced bearings and installed new pinion and ring gears. Differential and spider gears ok. Assembled diff following WSM procedures. Test drive, concerns resolved at this time, no further action required. Lies- Drove less than a mile and the sound is still there.

Brakes are good, tires are "great" per their inspection. The noise is persistent regardless if you are in two wheel drive, four wheel drive, accelerating, cruising speed, or braking. It's always there.

I need help. This dealership is beyond painful to deal with. They are not verifying the noise is gone. It is a grinding sound, and honestly I am concerned for my and my families safety driving this vehicle I paid over 75K. If it is under the Ford power train warranty I can go to any other Ford dealership, but I was a dummy when I bought the rig and the extended warranty is not thru Ford, but a third party that requires me to go to the same dealership.

Any ideas at all? Any info is greatly apprecaited.

 

[Hellwig]

Hello,

I have a 2019 Expedition Limited max that has mad the same noise for quite some time. It's a whirling type sound when you reach approx. 30 miles per hour and then a grinding sound when you turn the wheel ~ 2-5 degrees to the left. It has been the the dealership now 4 times, and the sound still exists despite what the dealer says every time I pick it up. Here are the services provided:

06/08/23: Mileage 55,602. Unable to verify a concern.

07/11/23: Mileage 56,872. Removed and replaced wheel hub/bearing per previous diag. Vehicle now operates and sounds as expected (Lie: noise is still present). Replaced front left caliper asy.

08/14/23: Mileage 58,025. Inspected vehicle and was unable to verify customers concern at this time. Performed TSB 22-2219. Checked vacuum line and pressure tested IWE and it passed. Road tested vehicle again and was unable to verify sound at this time (lie; service manager round with me after they returned vehicle and noise was still easy detected).

08/31/23: Mileage 58,407. Verified concern. Noise sounds coming from IWE's used chassis ear and verified noise coming from IWE. Replaced both front IWE and retest. Noise improved, but not resolved. Lift vehicle and run in 4x4. Excessive noise coming from internal of front diff. Recommend tear down to assess damages. Removed and disassembled front Diff. Found side bearing race pitted and burred heavily. Bearing seizing. Damages to gears. Replaced bearings and installed new pinion and ring gears. Differential and spider gears ok. Assembled diff following WSM procedures. Test drive, concerns resolved at this time, no further action required. Lies- Drove less than a mile and the sound is still there.

Brakes are good, tires are "great" per their inspection. The noise is persistent regardless if you are in two wheel drive, four wheel drive, accelerating, cruising speed, or braking. It's always there.

I need help. This dealership is beyond painful to deal with. They are not verifying the noise is gone. It is a grinding sound, and honestly I am concerned for my and my families safety driving this vehicle I paid over 75K. If it is under the Ford power train warranty I can go to any other Ford dealership, but I was a dummy when I bought the rig and the extended warranty is not thru Ford, but a third party that requires me to go to the same dealership.

Any ideas at all? Any info is greatly apprecaited.

Ford powertrain warranty is 5 years/60k miles?

 

[walker40425]

Yes, the warranty is 5 years/60k for the power train. What I mean is if it is an issue that is not powertrain related, it would have to be covered by the 3rd party warranty.

 

[Hellwig]

Yes, the warranty is 5 years/60k for the power train. What I mean is if it is an issue that is not powertrain related, it would have to be covered by the 3rd party warranty.

I quote the following paragraph from another user's post:

"Additionally, the vehicle's Powertrain Warranty may cover repairs within the following guidelines...

"Extended warranty coverage periods are available for certain vehicle parts and conditions. Specifically, (1) Your vehicle’s Powertrain components are covered for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. The extended coverage applies to the Engine: all internal lubricated parts, cylinder block, cylinder heads, electrical fuel pump, powertrain control module, engine mounts, flywheel, injection pump, manifold (exhaust and intake), manifold bolts, oil pan, oil pump, seals and gaskets, engine thermostat, engine thermostat housing, timing chain cover, timing chain (gears or belt),turbocharger/supercharger unit, valve covers, water pump; Transmission: all internal parts, clutch cover, seals and gaskets, torque converter, transfer case (including all internal parts), transmission case, transmission mounts; Front-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, front bearings, seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints; Rear-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, rear bearings, center support bearing, drive axle housing (including all internal parts), drive shaft, retainers, supports, seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints. Four-Wheel/All-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, bearings (front and rear),center support bearing, drive shafts, final drive housing (including all internal parts), hubs-automatic front locking (four-wheel drive), locking rings (four-wheel drive), seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints." "

 

[Hellwig]

I quote the following paragraph from another user's post:

"Additionally, the vehicle's Powertrain Warranty may cover repairs within the following guidelines...

"Extended warranty coverage periods are available for certain vehicle parts and conditions. Specifically, (1) Your vehicle’s Powertrain components are covered for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. The extended coverage applies to the Engine: all internal lubricated parts, cylinder block, cylinder heads, electrical fuel pump, powertrain control module, engine mounts, flywheel, injection pump, manifold (exhaust and intake), manifold bolts, oil pan, oil pump, seals and gaskets, engine thermostat, engine thermostat housing, timing chain cover, timing chain (gears or belt),turbocharger/supercharger unit, valve covers, water pump; Transmission: all internal parts, clutch cover, seals and gaskets, torque converter, transfer case (including all internal parts), transmission case, transmission mounts; Front-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, front bearings, seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints; Rear-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, rear bearings, center support bearing, drive axle housing (including all internal parts), drive shaft, retainers, supports, seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints. Four-Wheel/All-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, bearings (front and rear),center support bearing, drive shafts, final drive housing (including all internal parts), hubs-automatic front locking (four-wheel drive), locking rings (four-wheel drive), seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints." "

https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/search/powertrain.warranty.coverage

 

[walker40425]

Thank you for the warranty information/clarification.

What I am hoping for is some users that have experienced similar issues that have been resolved so I can have an idea of what the dealership should be looking for since it is apparent they are unaware.

 

[bryz_expy]

Have them take a look at the diff carrier bearings. My 19 has 48k miles and an unidentified noise the past three trips were finally confirmed last week. I’ve had a slight vibration in the accelerator pedal for over 8k miles but the past month it was progressively getting worse and light turns to the left would amplify it.

These are the pics the dealer sent me.
It should be done today. It’s been there a week.

 

[bryz_expy]

I’m not sure what part of the front diff they repaired or replaced. But sounds like they already rebuilt yours. Was it the spider gears or the carrier bearings. I’m hoping when I get mine back the noise is gone. Ugh. Sorry

 

[walker40425]

Unfortunately they did tear into the front end and replaced ring and pinion gears and "bearings." It is going back in on Wednesday, I will at least share your information. So frustrating.

 

[bryz_expy]

So I picked mine up yesterday and the differential work did resolve the noise and clunking I have had. While they had chassis ears on the front end, they also noticed or picked up noise in the front passenger wheel bearing. Replaced it as well.

One thing I didn’t mention was that in the previous trips when it went undiagnosed they kept suggesting other possible culprits. Sounds like tires and brake are okay on yours but I did end up putting new tires (due to a nail in the sidewall, and Discount swapping my Pirellis to Michelin’s due to tread warranty). The Michelins do ride much more quiet.

Another trip to the dealer also suggested rotors due to runout causing the noise. This to me wouldn’t be specific issue while turning and all of the time. I procrastinated swapping them. But the more I thought about it, it could be something felt at certain speeds if there was a runout out of spec. Neither replacement ended up resolving after putting new front rotors and pads on myself to prevent them from up selling me and ruling it out from their diagnosis.

I did have a slight pulsating feel at hwy speeds on the original rotors when initially pressing the pedal so it may have helped contribute to some of the front end noises, feel, etc.

 

[bryz_expy]

So update after a few weeks. Front diff and grinding is gone but the low speed popping noise is still evident when starting my drive in the morning.

Was someone on this thread saying it might be a body seam making contact?
Pulling the body from the frame as a fix?

I remember reading something to that effect but cannot find it.

 

[walker40425]

I will write the final resolution in case anyone else experiences this issue.

Returned the expedition to the dealership Wednesday September 13th. Mileage 58,999. Issue was still present, I just had to wait until they had a vehicle to provide. Expedition was returned to me September 29th. They tried multiple repairs as documented below, and the service tech would state issues is resolved. Luckily the service advisor and manger would verify prior to calling me, and it wasn't so they would take it back in. At the end of all this the issue is resolved, however I can not tell you specifically what it was or what was done to repair it since so much was done and at some point it was actually resolved. Overall, the service advisor was good to deal with, but questions remain regarding the quality of their actual mechanics. It took three months to resolve this, and I am just glad it is in the rear view.

Their notes:

Guest states still experiencing the same noise from the front end. Check and advise.
Steering and suspension repairs.


Verified noise concern present, although different noise from last visit (trust me it was the same noise from EVERY visit). Found no related codes or bulletins. Applied vacuum to IWE vacuum lines, holds 23 INGH for 15 mins. Lift and Inspect. Found driver side front axle seal is separating and metal seal collar is contacting CV axle. Recommend SPW replacement of seal and retest. Replaced axle seal and retest, still getting noise from front end. Lift and listen to front diff while running on rack in 4x4. Noise coming from inner pinion bearing area. Removed front diff and disassembled, fount pitting in pinion bearing race, and a carrier race, metal in fluid. No concerns noted with gear teeth. Replaced bearings, seals, and assembled per WSM. Test drive, noise concern in front diff is resolved.

Parts:
AL3Z*4B416*A SEAL -DUST
2L1Z*3N134*AA SEAL
C7AZ*4628*A CUP
D0AZ*4630*AA CONE AND ROLLER - BEARING
B7A*4616*A CUP
B7A-4621*A BEARING ASY - DRIVING PINION
NL3Z*4220*A BAERING ASY - DIFFERENTIAL

Verified concern. Noise coming from front end. Lift and listen to front diff and wheel bearings while running on rack in 4x4. Noise coming from inner pinion bearing area. Removed front diff and dissembled, found pitting in pinion bearing race, and a carrier race. Metal in fluid. No concern noted with gear teeth. Replaced bearings, seals, and assembled per WSM. Test drive, noise concern in front diff resolved.

Parts:
JL1Z*1104*G* HUB ASY - WHEEL
*W706890*S439 BOLT
*N802827*S100A NUT - HEX - FLANGED
*W720613*S439 BOLT AND WASHER ASY - HEX HEAD
JL1Z*1104*G HUB ASY -WHEEL
*W706890*S439 BOLT
*N802827*S100A NUT - HEX - FLANGED
*W720613*S439 BOLT AND WASHER ASY - HEX HEAD


Verified concern. Rotational noise coming from front end. After diff repair. Lift and inspect with stethoscope, unable to isolate. Test drive, noise coming from left side wheel bearing. Replaced and retest. Concern improved but not resolved. installed chassis ears and test drive. remaining noise coming from RF wheel bearing. Replaced RF wheel bearing and retest. Concern resolved at this time, no further action required.

 

[Soliyou]

I will write the final resolution in case anyone else experiences this issue.

Returned the expedition to the dealership Wednesday September 13th. Mileage 58,999. Issue was still present, I just had to wait until they had a vehicle to provide. Expedition was returned to me September 29th. They tried multiple repairs as documented below, and the service tech would state issues is resolved. Luckily the service advisor and manger would verify prior to calling me, and it wasn't so they would take it back in. At the end of all this the issue is resolved, however I can not tell you specifically what it was or what was done to repair it since so much was done and at some point it was actually resolved. Overall, the service advisor was good to deal with, but questions remain regarding the quality of their actual mechanics. It took three months to resolve this, and I am just glad it is in the rear view.

Their notes:

Guest states still experiencing the same noise from the front end. Check and advise.
Steering and suspension repairs.


Verified noise concern present, although different noise from last visit (trust me it was the same noise from EVERY visit). Found no related codes or bulletins. Applied vacuum to IWE vacuum lines, holds 23 INGH for 15 mins. Lift and Inspect. Found driver side front axle seal is separating and metal seal collar is contacting CV axle. Recommend SPW replacement of seal and retest. Replaced axle seal and retest, still getting noise from front end. Lift and listen to front diff while running on rack in 4x4. Noise coming from inner pinion bearing area. Removed front diff and disassembled, fount pitting in pinion bearing race, and a carrier race, metal in fluid. No concerns noted with gear teeth. Replaced bearings, seals, and assembled per WSM. Test drive, noise concern in front diff is resolved.

Parts:
AL3Z*4B416*A SEAL -DUST
2L1Z*3N134*AA SEAL
C7AZ*4628*A CUP
D0AZ*4630*AA CONE AND ROLLER - BEARING
B7A*4616*A CUP
B7A-4621*A BEARING ASY - DRIVING PINION
NL3Z*4220*A BAERING ASY - DIFFERENTIAL

Verified concern. Noise coming from front end. Lift and listen to front diff and wheel bearings while running on rack in 4x4. Noise coming from inner pinion bearing area. Removed front diff and dissembled, found pitting in pinion bearing race, and a carrier race. Metal in fluid. No concern noted with gear teeth. Replaced bearings, seals, and assembled per WSM. Test drive, noise concern in front diff resolved.

Parts:
JL1Z*1104*G* HUB ASY - WHEEL
*W706890*S439 BOLT
*N802827*S100A NUT - HEX - FLANGED
*W720613*S439 BOLT AND WASHER ASY - HEX HEAD
JL1Z*1104*G HUB ASY -WHEEL
*W706890*S439 BOLT
*N802827*S100A NUT - HEX - FLANGED
*W720613*S439 BOLT AND WASHER ASY - HEX HEAD


Verified concern. Rotational noise coming from front end. After diff repair. Lift and inspect with stethoscope, unable to isolate. Test drive, noise coming from left side wheel bearing. Replaced and retest. Concern improved but not resolved. installed chassis ears and test drive. remaining noise coming from RF wheel bearing. Replaced RF wheel bearing and retest. Concern resolved at this time, no further action required.

Thanks for sharing the fix!

 

[Mr Big]

This was probably your noise: pitting in pinion bearing race, and a carrier race, as this can cause grinding noise. Once replaced noise will stop until next time.

 

[walker40425]

This was probably your noise: pitting in pinion bearing race, and a carrier race, as this can cause grinding noise. Once replaced noise will stop until next time.

Agreed, but this brings up the question of what actually happened on the 8/31/23 service when they noted a bearing race pitted at the time with damage to the pinon gear and replaced all front differential bearings, gears, and seals and the noise was still there. My "hunch" which I have no way to substantiate, is they didn't do everything they said they did on the 8/31/23 service. Or, maybe they got bad replacement parts. Either way, I wanted to document the process in case anyone else ever has the same issue and gets in the same situation I did.

 

[nochruto]

This sounds like a nightmare. Unfortunately the symptoms you described sounds EXACTLY LIKE MINE. For a second i thought, this was my post! Sadly for me i don't have any warranty (2016) unless i buy some third party now but doubt it’ll be covered. So do we think it was indeed the pitting in bearing race and carrier race?? I’d hate to pay for all the other stuff…

 

[LT-EXPO]

My 18 expedition 4x4 (150k miles) has same noise-turn right at 35mph-gear noise-turn left, it stops. Replaced both front hub assemblies & Replaced leaking main pinion gear seal-noise still there. Looking at front driver side inside diff where axle inserts..slight leaking of oil so diagnosing still. Will share if I sort it.