Hum? My 1997 Expo's starter engages by itself

[stamp11127]

With Fuse 20 removed does your radio work?

 

[carmelo2215]

With Fuse 20 removed does your radio work?

I just noticed that the clock was on. As far as the radio playing I will find out for you.

Yes the radio works.

Also I just tried to start Expo again, with fuse 20 out and did not start by itself. Turned the key to run starter did not engage.

 

[FairfaxStu]

Also I just tried to start Expo again, with fuse 20 out and did not start by itself. Turned the key to run starter did not engage.

What does that mean? I don't understand. Are you saying that the vehicle will not start without fuse 20? I think you said it did before.

 

[carmelo2215]

What does that mean? I don't understand. Are you saying that the vehicle will not start without fuse 20?

Another test. Just turned the key to run with fuse 20 out. The starter did not engage. I did not turn the key to start just to run.

 

[FairfaxStu]

Another test. Just turned the key to run with fuse 20 out. The starter did not engage. I did not turn the key to start just to run.

Will it start without fuse 20 in there? Also, if you pop it back in, does it still try to start in just the run position?

 

[carmelo2215]

Pull both fuse 20 & 21 which will isolate the circuits. Reconnect the cut wire. Install fuse 20 (GEM side) and see if the starter engages when the trans is in P or N. If it doesn't your problem is on the ignition switch side.

Ok now, tested with fuse 20 out and 21 in. Completed two separate tests hours apart. Turned key to run, paused starter did not engage, then started the Expo. Did not engage the starter either time while it was at idle. I have been running the heater under the dash all day long.

?I have yet to find anything that dose not work with fuse 20 out, ideas on that?

 

[FairfaxStu]

I have yet to find anything that dose not work with fuse 20 out, ideas on that?

I found this which I think is interesting:

1997 1998 Expedition Navigator 4x4 Genuine Ford GEM Module

Do your windshield wipers, lights and 4WD still work without it?

 

[carmelo2215]

Mr. Stamp everything in the expo seems to be working with fuse 20 out. I just drove the vehicle up and down my driveway many times. All to a success, no starter engages at anytime. The 4x4 is working, windows, lights, radio, brake lights, interior lights, that I think is very odd. I can confirm that the 4x4 is working because there is a light snow on the ground. I do want to buy a new GEM mod but is it needed? What is going on with fuse 20 being out of the loop?

 

[FairfaxStu]

Mr. Stamp everything in the expo seems to be working with fuse 20 out. I just drove the vehicle up and down my driveway many times. All to a success, no starter engages at anytime. The 4x4 is working, windows, lights, radio, brake lights, interior lights, that I think is very odd. I can confirm that the 4x4 is working because there is a light snow on the ground. I do want to buy a new GEM mod but is it needed? What is going on with fuse 20 being out of the loop?

I am hopelessly confused as well. If the GEM module has no power and everything works, then what exactly does that sucker do? It has a huge number of pins on the harness, so I would expect that carmelo would have major issues without it.

I just wonder what fuse 20 actually does. Is it really the power to the GEM module or is just the power from the GEM module that can potentially start the vehicle?

 

[FairfaxStu]

Also, you may want to invest in a set of these:

1997 Expedition Shop Manual Set - Helm Incorporated

This will help you to figure out any issues with your Expedition.

 

[FairfaxStu]

So, did you test drive it yet? What happens if you put fuse 20 back in?

 

[stamp11127]

Since the radio did work with the fuse pulled out, that does confirm a difference between my 99 and your 97. I'll do some searching and see if I can find a diagram for your year.

 

[stamp11127]

Carmelo2215 I sent you a pm

Found a wiring diagram for the 97.....
Need to clarify which box your removing fuses from, fuse/relay panel inside or the power distribution box in the engine compartment.

Both have fuse 20 & 21.

Since you have cut the red/lt blue wire already you should only see 12v in the start position of the ign switch. If you see it in the run position the ign. switch is bad.

 

[carmelo2215]

Need to clarify which box your removing fuses from, fuse/relay panel inside or the power distribution box

Both fuses are from the inside panel.

My drive to work was ok with no problems.

 

[stamp11127]

Fuse 20 in the inside panel connects to pin 5 of the GEM and to the 4 wheel air suspension module if equipped. Looks like the GEM was back feeding on that circuit.
That would explain why your not seeing any other difference with the fuse removed.
If nothing else is out of the ordinary with the GEM, you could add a diode to pin 5 as added protection.

 

[FairfaxStu]

Fuse 20 in the inside panel connects to pin 5 of the GEM and to the 4 wheel air suspension module if equipped. Looks like the GEM was back feeding on that circuit.
That would explain why your not seeing any other difference with the fuse removed.
If nothing else is out of the ordinary with the GEM, you could add a diode to pin 5 as added protection.

I was thinking the same thing. Back feeding is a pita and should never happen. I mailed carmelo a diode.

 

[FairfaxStu]

Carmelo [Jayhue],

Did you try it yet with fuse 20 back in the mix? I suspect it will work just fine but I recommend that you save up some cash toward the new GEM as it seems to fix a lot of issues that the factory (current) one has. Also, what is the status of the windshield replacement? Obviously, a water leak was the culprit here.

-Stu

 

[carmelo2215]

Driving the Expo for a week now with fuse 20 in. Thanks Stamp and Fstu.

 

[Rowan Street]

I just bought a 2004 Eddie Bauer Expedition and tonight I went out to check on something in it and when I closed the door and press the lock button on the key clicker the car started. It was freaky. I got in and couldn’t figure out what to do. Finally I went to put in into gear and when I pressed on the brake it shut off. I turned it back on with the key and drove around some. Then I closed and locked it up and it was fine. WTF??? That was weird. Could the previous owner have installed a remote starter? Very strange and kind of alarming.

James

 

[Bedrck47]

Rowan Street

Since this is an older thread about 1st gens You would be best to start a new thread about your problem and that way you would receive replies for your issues