Ignoring the tongue weight (max cargo/payload)?

[Steve Patterson]

I went through a similar analysis and purchased a travel trailer. Below is an overview my experience linking back the "real world" numbers to my spreadsheet numbers....this is my first travel trailer. I have no previous TT experience, but have towed a small utility trailer quite a bit.

The first trip to the CAT Scales with my new loaded trailer and tow vehicle (TV), also loaded, was a surprise....(Loaded, but no water).

After three passes through the scales (Just TV, TV w/ Trailer and WDH disconnected and finally pass three; TV with WDH set up), I found my rear axle was overloaded by about 300 lbs and my front axle was lighter than the TV alone wt by about 150 lbs (not good for steering control).

What was happening (despite my excel spreadsheet numbers), was the down pressure of the tong wt was too much (although in spec at about 930 lbs) and like a see-saw, the back is pushed down and the front push up (lower front axle wt then the TV without trailer). And the WDH was not distributing enough wt to the Front and Travel Tailer Axles (although it was the "1000 lb version")

As a result I did two things: Increased the setting on the WDH (one chain link), and changed the loading in the trailer to reduce the trailer tongue Wt.

I changed the trailer loading while the trailer tongue was on a trailer tung scale (eTrailer, 2000lb max version). I moved two heavy objects from the front compartment to the rear (about a total of 100 lbs moved). I then added about 10 gallons of fresh water for the trip (80 lbs), watching the sale go back up somewhat (about 50% of the water weight would be added to the the tung). I made some other smaller changes, always watching the tung scale. I ended up with about a 820 lbs tung. (Although the CAT scales and my own scale were disagreeing a bit, at least the trailer tung scale was consistent as I re-distrbuted the trailer cargo)

I then took my first trip (1200 miles) and weighed the actual vehicle once again on the CAT scales within the first 30 miles, with a full tank of gas. This time just a quick one pass weigh with WDH hook up, no time to do the three passes as I was on my trip. My axle weights were good and in spec. The TT Tongue wt was about 11% of the trailer.


Although all my weight "numbers" were good and verified, I was very surprised what a white knuckle ride the first two days were. Although no significant wind, about 30 trucks per hr would pass me on the interstate. Not fun.

Some trucks would cause a single sway (never as sway back and forth, so the anti-sway WDH was doing its job), but it was a bit uncountable. Maybe just learning curve towing TT.

After talking to someone end of day 2, on the third and last day, I reduced my speed to 58 MPH as an experiment(from 63-65), and what a difference! Much more comfortable. Wind about 10 MPH.

So although the speed limit was 70, I felt very comfortable at 58 MPH. The lower 58 MPH speed vs 63-63 MPH improved my gas milage from about 8 MPG to about 10 MPG. My trailer is a 25 foot model (29.5 feet long) and a 6000 lb dry wt / 7500 GVWR, and about 6800 as actually towed on my first trip.

Pushing the Expy numbers on a spreadsheet is one thing...but managing the numbers on your actual rig the day you are traveling is another. My set up is "boxed" in with these numbers, and I can't go higher on the Tung Wt percent.

I think the "ideal" maximum TT wt might be about 1000 lbs lighter than my trailer for EXPy. And a few feet shorter. Although I am happy with my choice. I also decided when making the choice to purchase this particular travel trailer, that would go to a 3/4 ton truck if I had to. So far, I am not going to, but that may change as I gain more travel time.

Hope this helps!

A few extra notes on my set up: My tow vehicle tires were pumped to the max (50 psi) tire rating vs the car sticker of 35 psi. Trailer tires to their recommended 65 psi. I also have the shorter (non EX version) Expedition. I do not have the OEM option of air shocks.

 

[DExpy17]

Although all my weight "numbers" were good and verified, I was very surprised what a white knuckle ride the first two days were. Although no significant wind, about 30 trucks per hr would pass me on the interstate. Not fun.

Some trucks would cause a single sway (never as sway back and forth, so the anti-sway WDH was doing its job), but it was a bit uncountable. Maybe just learning curve towing TT.

After talking to someone end of day 2, on the third and last day, I reduced my speed to 58 MPH as an experiment(from 63-65), and what a difference! Much more comfortable. Wind about 10 MPH.

Although all my weight "numbers" were good and verified, I was very surprised what a white knuckle ride the first two days were. Although no significant wind, about 30 trucks per hr would pass me on the interstate. Not fun.

Some trucks would cause a single sway (never as sway back and forth, so the anti-sway WDH was doing its job), but it was a bit uncountable. Maybe just learning curve towing TT.

After talking to someone end of day 2, on the third and last day, I reduced my speed to 58 MPH as an experiment(from 63-65), and what a difference! Much more comfortable. Wind about 10 MPH.

So although the speed limit was 70, I felt very comfortable at 58 MPH. The lower 58 MPH speed vs 63-63 MPH improved my gas milage from about 8 MPG to about 10 MPG. My trailer is a 25 foot model (29.5 feet long) and a 6000 lb dry wt / 7500 GVWR, and about 6800 as actually towed on my first trip.

My TT is very similar in weight except mine is 33'6" long, same weights. I just changed to Reese "Strait- Line" WDH installed by dealer. Trying to tow with My old setup I was white knuckled and on my first trip it was iffy with same result of about 58-60 felt comfortable. On the way back, I took off one more chain link and to my surprise it was much better. Visually it was no noticable difference. But I was able to 65 to 70 on a 70 MPH high way comfortably. So, it might still be about fine tuning your WDH. Back tires at 45, front at 38

 

[audiodane]

@DExpy17, I am hesitant to pull something so long.. Have you pulled shorter, and can you compare that to your current 33.5' rig?

 

[DExpy17]

@DExpy17, I am hesitant to pull something so long.. Have you pulled shorter, and can you compare that to your current 33.5' rig?

Not with the Expy. My old camper was 29' tip to tail, 26' box, 5700lb fully loaded. Towed with 04 suburban xl 1500 and 08 GMC Sierra. Both campers pulled behind the sub like nothing there. I found myself at times cruising on straightaways at 80 MPH. They would pull some when tractor trailers passed me, but I was usually passing them so it wasn't a problem. I never felt uncomfortable. I pulled the longer camper twice with the sub. once when we picked it up then on a 900 mile round trip. Really didnt pull any different the old camper. Unfortunately, the sub was heading down hill fast( lots of rust underneath, air intake leak, exhaust manifold leak, 215k miles). Found the Expy EL at a great price with 1000lb more supposed tow capacity than the suburbans I was looking at.

The Expy is taking a little time to get used to. After this last tow experience, I feel much better about our decision to get it. Truly feel the WDH was never set right and honestly never took it across the CAT scale yet.Every weekend I plan to, something else comes up. My wife definitely likes it as her every day vehicle. She gets a little happy twinge when she hits the highway and finds herself doing 90 coming off the on ramp. She likes the power and quickness. She is not a lead foot either. She usual is a speed limit only kind of girl.

 

[Tim Fuller]

For what it's worth my '13 EL happily pulls our Roo 233S (6000 lb) with a family of 5 inside. Little "trick" we learned, put luggage in camper over axle. Let the truck pull it.
Side note, the 233s floor plan will sleep 10(technically) and is a reasonable size.
No, I don't work for a camper company

 

[1955moose]

Tim, please tell me you don't have the family actually in the trailer while your towing it? Bad idea! If something happens in traffic, and you had to swerve, I don't need to finish this sentence.

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[Muddy Bean]

Another data point. We’ve been towing a 5300lb trailer for about 13,000 miles this year alone. We’ve towed in a lot of different conditions from flat hwy to curvy side roads in rain, high winds, and up and down mountain passes. Currently we are in Northern Cal headed to Portland. First, I can tell you without a doubt a sway control/WDH is a must. I can tow comfortably at 75 mph on a calm day and smooth surface road. I generally don’t do this because I’m not comfortable that my 75mph rated trailer tires can really handle the heat buildup on a hot day so I generally cruise around 60-65mph. We’ve experienced high winds the past two days in NorCal so I’ve had to slow down to 55mph to keep things steady. I can assure you that the automatic sway control built into my truck works well having had it activate a few times this year.

One of the biggest improvements in addition to my sway control (I use the Anderson system btw) is maxing out my tire pressure on the rear. I have my rear tires set to 65 psi which made a fairly dramatic improvement in sway/bobble and just firmed up everything nicely back there.

My truck has been towing like a boss up the mountains and my only complaint is the gas mileage stinks when towing. 8mpg average and yesterday with a 30mph headwind all day I averaged 5.8. My tour bus gets better mpg than that.

For reference, my trailer weighs 5300lbs loaded and wet. I have my wife and two little girls in the truck. Truck trunk is fully loaded with audio equipment and speakers for my concerts and a piano keyboard and guitar too. My total weight is around 12,000lbs scaled.


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