Looking to buy soon with lots of questions

[James Cain]

Hey guys, my name is Clint and I’m new here. A little bit about me: just moved to Vegas from Italy (active duty air force) and looking to buy a 3rd gen EL. I am selling my 2002 F350 7.3L that I did quite a bit of work too. Also thinking about a navigator L and wanted to know your opinions between the two since they share the same platform. Preferably 2007-2013 due to budget constraints (trying to stay under 10K). so here are my questions:

1. Expedition EL vs Navigator L pros and cons?
2. I see that the earlier model 4x2 (2007/2008s) got an epa 12 city/18 hwy and then some of the later models get 14 city/20 hwy. What year did they make improvements to up the fuel economy? Also, what is the best mpg people in the real world are getting with these rigs?
3. I was shooting to buy something under 150k miles. What is the going reputation for these and longevity. I have read some great things about the 5.4 but wanted to see if these had any know issues or weak points to be aware of?
4. When checking these out, what should I check for mechanically? I am pretty mechanically inclined and can check the basic stuff.
5. any other general items to be aware of

all replies and input appreciated

 

[jeff kushner]

I'm driving my 3rd expy.......I hate the Navigator....in the DC area, I wouldn't look right in a navigator....just the way it is here. Navs are better appointed though.

I would not have bought my '17 if it only came with the 5.4. Great engine, crappy execution imho(please don't beat on me too hard 5.4 guys). Cam phasers, head gaskets...no excuse t me.

What's your budget? The rest is kinda immaterial till we know if you are thinking of spending 5K vs 15K or 25K.


jeff

 

[Trainmaster]

If you can manage to swing something under 100K miles, you can get a Ford powertrain warranty for about $1300 and not have a worry in the world for at least a few years.

I'd avoid anything built before 10/9/07 (date label on door jam or right valve cover) so you're not stuck with those plugs that break when you try changing them. That's when they changed to conventional plugs. And listen for the rattle on startup that suggests timing chain guide problems.

Good luck, welcome and thank you for serving in the Air Force for us all.

 

[James Cain]

I'm driving my 3rd expy.......I hate the Navigator....in the DC area, I wouldn't look right in a navigator....just the way it is here. Navs are better appointed though.

I would not have bought my '17 if it only came with the 5.4. Great engine, crappy execution imho(please don't beat on me too hard 5.4 guys). Cam phasers, head gaskets...no excuse t me.

What's your budget? The rest is kinda immaterial till we know if you are thinking of spending 5K vs 15K or 25K.


jeff

Great info Jeff. My budget is around $10K. I have actually found quite a few in that range but most have 150k+miles.

 

[James Cain]

If you can manage to swing something under 100K miles, you can get a Ford powertrain warranty for about $1300 and not have a worry in the world for at least a few years.

I'd avoid anything built before 10/9/07 (date label on door jam or right valve cover) so you're not stuck with those plugs that break when you try changing them. That's when they changed to conventional plugs. And listen for the rattle on startup that suggests timing chain guide problems.

Good luck, welcome and thank you for serving in the Air Force for us all.

Exactly the type of stuff I want to know! Thanks Trainmaster. I will keep the date in mind but will probably just avoid 2007 year models all together to be on the safe side during my search. Finding one with under 100K miles with my budget may be tough but good to know.

And we couldnt perform our mission without your support, so a big thanks to you!

 

[JExpedition07]

I don’t like the Navigator myself, I wouldn’t even look at them when I was shopping. No 4Low and those taillights just don’t do it for me. I like the 5.4, my last one was still perfect at 180k miles before the truck was totaled in an accident. My current one will be getting a new timing set in spring but runs perfect besides startup rattle in morning. Camphasers and timing chains fail commonly on the 3.5 EcoBoost and occasionally the 5.0, all one needs to do is look at the F-150 forum for higher mileage trucks. Not really something limited to 5.4s, maybe a bit more common is all. Take care of them and they are good whichever engine. Head gaskets aren’t a common failure item on the 5.4 3V Triton, that’s only a worry if you are looking at older 2V versions pre 2005. The 3 valve engine got entirely new head gaskets with the revised heads and higher compression.

2009 got the 6R80 which has some programming differences than the 6R75 in the 07-08 units. Both are good but the 6R80 has tow/haul mode which is nice. All depends on the shape of the trucks you find, whatever is in better shape and a better deal is a winner.

 

[jeff kushner]

While I may not care for it, JE knows the 5.4's pretty well...his advice is typically considered gold here fyi



jeff

 

[JExpedition07]

Thanks Jeff, but op don’t take my advice as gold lol. Read into everyones though and you’ll learn a lot. I learn from people on here everyday and I’ve been on the wrong side of the fence plenty of times. This is a great place when you do buy one. I can’t tell you how many times these guys have saved my trouble and $$$.

I see budget is a constraint, which was the same boat I was in. If it wasn’t the 15-17 EcoBoosts are great trucks and not much more than a late 5.4. That being said with that budget a well cared for earlier 5.4 is the most realistic option. A late 5.4 V8 or 3.5 Eco will be whipped with miles for 10k so I’d shop 07-12 range myself.

 

[jeff kushner]

FWIW guys;https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/engine/common-issues-3-5l-ecoboost/

This might help

jeff

 

[jeff kushner]

I bought this '03 EB edition 5 years ago for 5K with under 150K. Tranny died at 177 but the truck was very nice. You can find a really nice truck...but be careful for frame rust. I used to launch my boat with my '99 and the whole rear rusted to the point that the show towers rusted through!

jeff

 

[richs fishes]

Transmission shudder is common. For some a drain on fill of the trans fluid is enough to fix it. For others not so much. Also brake hose collapse is common which causes the calipers to 'freeze' up and pulls hard one way when braking.

I got my 08 EL earlier this year with 95K miles for $8000.

 

[James Cain]

Wow! Guys thanks so much for all the advice. So glad to see the community for these is alive and kicking as it was with my Superduty. I will take all into consideration. Good to see there arent many major problems with them.

 

[James Cain]

Thanks Jeff, but op don’t take my advice as gold lol. Read into everyones though and you’ll learn a lot. I learn from people on here everyday and I’ve been on the wrong side of the fence plenty of times. This is a great place when you do buy one. I can’t tell you how many times these guys have saved my trouble and $$$.

I see budget is a constraint, which was the same boat I was in. If it wasn’t the 15-17 EcoBoosts are great trucks and not much more than a late 5.4. That being said with that budget a well cared for earlier 5.4 is the most realistic option. A late 5.4 V8 or 3.5 Eco will be whipped with miles for 10k so I’d shop 07-12 range myself.

exactly what I was thinking. from what I am finding, I'm seeing 2007-2010s under 150K for under $10K. Gonna try and stay away from 2007 year model because of the spark plug issue. Question on that; What exactly is the issue with the spark plugs? is there a special tool needed that prevents the plugs from breaking when changing them?

 

[Flexpedition]

Gonna try and stay away from 2007 year model because of the spark plug issue. Question on that; What exactly is the issue with the spark plugs?

This is what happens when you read various opinions and take them as bible.

SOME, not all, Expeditions had "spark plug issues". Some owners and mechanics don't follow any of several techniques for replacement. They ratchet away like its a weedeater plug. The end result is "Ford is junk, had to helicoil, had to buy a new head, avoid this vehicle" mentality.

If you've found a 2007, 2008, or even a 2015 with over 100K miles and original spark plugs, you've found a truck where the basic, most routine maintenance hasn't been followed. Its probably got the original coolant in it as well. Should you avoid this? IMO not necessarily, you should negotiate the service(s) being completed before buying if there are no receipts in the glovebox indicating whats been done.

If at a dealership or private party: "Here is what I'll offer for the truck, here is a $500 refundable deposit check. Call me next Tuesday when all the work is complete and we'll finish the deal after another short test drive then." If they balk, you walk.

Also know that Ford sold like 90K 2007 models. 2008 saw just 55K. 2009 31K. So mathematically the 2007 is the most plentiful. Since its the most plentiful, it'll obviously have the most complaints, and keep in mind when it comes to reviews most people harp on negatives. Like 3rd owners who didn't check any maintenance history before buying-here, paying-here for a 2007 with 150K, after 3 plugs snapped when their brother in law (who took automotive in high school) tried to replace them one night after drinking.

 

[bobmbx]

exactly what I was thinking. from what I am finding, I'm seeing 2007-2010s under 150K for under $10K. Gonna try and stay away from 2007 year model because of the spark plug issue. Question on that; What exactly is the issue with the spark plugs? is there a special tool needed that prevents the plugs from breaking when changing them?

The issue is that in the mid 2000s, Ford used a two-piece spark plug in several engine designs. It didn't take long to discover that the design of the head, coupled with the design of the plug, was poor. The plugs were collecting carbon in the plug well which acted like a glue between the head and the plug. When someone tried to take out the plug, they were breaking, leaving the business end of the plug in the head. This particular failure is something any engine can suffer, but the Ford design was almost guaranteed to snap a plug if you were unaware of the issue and didn't at least try to make easier to get the plug out. No method proved to be 100% effective. Ford stopped using the 2-piece plug in mid-year 2008 (if you have a 2008, you can tell which plugs the factory installed by looking at the color of the coil boot - black = 2-piece, brown = 1-piece).

 

[JExpedition07]

exactly what I was thinking. from what I am finding, I'm seeing 2007-2010s under 150K for under $10K. Gonna try and stay away from 2007 year model because of the spark plug issue. Question on that; What exactly is the issue with the spark plugs? is there a special tool needed that prevents the plugs from breaking when changing them?

Sometimes they get carbon build up then break if not removed correctly. There is a lisle tool to retrieve if any break. The proper procedure is to spray carb cleaner inside the plug well after 1/4 turn loosen then let soak to break carbon up first. I’ve changed the plugs on two of my 2007 Expeditions last one totaled and this one and Zero (0) plugs broke on either for reference lol. Went smoothly with the carb cleaner soak method.

 

[bobmbx]

Sometimes they get carbon build up then break if not removed correctly. There is a lisle tool to retrieve if any break. The proper procedure is to spray carb cleaner inside the plug well after 1/4 turn loosen then let soak to break carbon up first. I’ve changed the plugs on two of my 2007 Expeditions last one totaled and this one and Zero (0) plugs broke on either for reference lol. Went smoothly with the carb cleaner soak method.

Now that its been 11-12 years since the last of those plugs were originally installed, any car still using those factory plugs should be just a piece of crap, indicating an extreme lack of maintenance.

 

[James Cain]

So guys, I found a 2007 Navigator L. Has 84,000 miles and in pretty good condition. Only issue is the rear airbags wont fill. A quick search tells me this is a common issue with these. What can you guys tell me about this?

 

[sjwelds]

Many have swapped to springs and eliminated the air ride entirely.

 

[James Cain]

Many have swapped to springs and eliminated the air ride entirely.

well the rear is sitting really low so i'm assuming it still have the stock rear air suspension. If I get it, I already planned on doing the swap to springs. I was asking what would need to be done to repair the air bags until I could get the springs installed.