Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued

[Stevo0687]

I'm shopping for a 4th gen Expedition MAX and came across an XLT (FX4) with

• Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued
  • Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER
• Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued
  • Program #21N03 CAM PHASERS

listed in the CARFAX but no sign of them being completed. My understanding is that not every vehicle this was issued for needed it, but I also saw some deadlines for some of them that seemed if they weren't programmed in a certain timeframe, they expire.

I would like to better understand the severity of these and most importantly if these are reason for concern with the purchase. From my own research, it doesn't sound like it should be a concern, but I don't want to make a costly mistake.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DWs-TTEB]

I'm shopping for a 4th gen Expedition MAX and came across an XLT (FX4) with

• Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued
  • Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER
• Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued
  • Program #21N03 CAM PHASERS

listed in the CARFAX but no sign of them being completed. My understanding is that not every vehicle this was issued for needed it, but I also saw some deadlines for some of them that seemed if they weren't programmed in a certain timeframe, they expire.

I would like to better understand the severity of these and most importantly if these are reason for concern with the purchase. From my own research, it doesn't sound like it should be a concern, but I don't want to make a costly mistake.

Thanks in advance.

What is the model year of this FX4 (build date helps more)? Build dates of mid 2020 (Nov-2020+) to present should have gotten the updated cam phasers/parts & will not have the cam phaser issues. It is really hit or miss with earlier build dates. I have a MY19 (4-20-2019 built) without any cam phaser issues or the PCM updates you listed done to date. I believe using high quality full synthetic motor oil changed every 4k-5k miles has helped keep this issue from surfacing for my Expy. Hope that helps some.

 

[Stevo0687]

Sorry, that's an important detail I left out. It is a 2018. And thank you for the other background.

 

[DWs-TTEB]

Sorry, that's an important detail I left out. It is a 2018. And thank you for the other background.

In that case, the dealer selling this needs to prove to you in writing that either the cam phasers were replaced & to a minimum that the 2 PCM updates for this (cam phaser raddle) were completed so that you will be covered by the Ford warranty of 70k miles regarding cam phasers/VCT systems. This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners. were it stated this PCM updates needed to be done by the end of Feb, 2022.

 

[AJ82]

As a check, you could show up to the dealer (without notifying them first) and request to cold start the vehicle. If it has the phaser issue you will likely hear it (YouTube it). If you let him know you are coming beforehand he could run out there and start it prior and it may not be heard.

As mentioned above there should be some paperwork that the repair was done and he should let you see it.

You might want to search around on the forum some more on this topic. Some believe the "fixes" don't really fix anything and the sound comes back. I'm not sure how true that is. Also keep in mind that 2018 was the first year of this generation so it probably has more issues than later model years. This isn't just a Ford thing, the first year of redesigned models from most manufacturers exhibit similar behavior. Later year models typically include fixes.

 

[Stevo0687]

Thank you both for your input. I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to pass on this one. It just doesn't seem worth the risk with the details I have. I'm not in a rush to to make a purchase (yet).

 

[NukeLife]

You might want to search around on the forum some more on this topic. Some believe the "fixes" don't really fix anything and the sound comes back. I'm not sure how true that is.

Yep, you caught me. I really work for GM.
Dang. Almost had you believing my story, too.

 

[AJ82]

Yep, you caught me. I really work for GM.
Dang. Almost had you believing my story, too.

LOL. I was just trying to say I had no first hand knowledge of the repair but it didn't come out that way. I'd be willing to bet you are right or you truly are a really good story teller!