Name that tune (I think it's the timing chain)

[Eleventy5]

Fairly constant engine noise cold or warm. 2006 XLT with 180k + miles that is in decent shape, but was not well taken care of before I brought it home. I first thought it was the belt tensioner, but the sound seems to be coming from the passenger side of the motor under the tensioner and not the tensioner itself.

Anyone heard this noise before that may be able to point me in the right direction?

 

[mbtech2003]

try turning the A/C on and off and see if it changes at all. could be a bad clutch or compressor.

 

[1955moose]

You must be knew around these parts stranger! As they used to say in the 50's westerns. 2005-10 have an issue inside the timing chain cover. The guides are plastic, and sometimes wear premature. That along with the cam phaser, that advance and retard camshaft timing. They are hydraulic controlled by oil, similar to a lifter on a push rod motor. When maintenance is not done as schedule, dirty oil plugs them up, and that's when the party gets started. Your camshafts don't know if they want advance or retard. Motor starts sounding like an idling Diesel. Either way, have it diagnosed soon, and repaired, or your looking at a new motor. 2005-07 unfortunately we're the red haired step child of these suvs Good luck and post what you find.

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[Eleventy5]

try turning the A/C on and off and see if it changes at all. could be a bad clutch or compressor.

No Change whether the AC is on or off, I checked that as well. Sorry I forgot to mention it.

You must be knew around these parts stranger! As they used to say in the 50's westerns. 2005-10 have an issue inside the timing chain cover. The guides are plastic, and sometimes wear premature. That along with the cam phaser, that advance and retard camshaft timing. They are hydraulic controlled by oil, similar to a lifter on a push rod motor. When maintenance is not done as schedule, dirty oil plugs them up, and that's when the party gets started. Your camshafts don't know if they want advance or retard. Motor starts sounding like an idling Diesel. Either way, have it diagnosed soon, and repaired, or your looking at a new motor. 2005-07 unfortunately we're the red haired step child of these suvs Good luck and post what you find.

That is what I anticipated. I just wanted a second opinion from someone who has heard it before.

 

[1955moose]

Depending on who's doing the job, it runs about $1600.00 or so. Get it diagnosed at a reputable shop, and good luck.

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[darmahsd]

I'd love to see a sticky that breaks it down to a shopping list of what you need to fix the problem.
I have 90K on mine and ever since I owned it from 46K,
it would occasionally have what I think was that wind up
noise of the timing chain tightening as the tensioners
extended out from the delay in oil pressure from a cold start. I 've watched the Ford Tech, "Makuloco" YouTubes
that address alot of these issues, like upgraded oil
pump with a stiffer backing plate and something about
modifying or eliminating the variable cam timing issue.
If you can spend a weekend, take off the timing cover and replace everything with upgraded parts, it would be great
to have the piece of mind of a truly high mileage engine.
I got 250 K out of my 2 valve engine in the first gen '97
that I had and had to get rid of that truck because the body desintegrated way before the engine. My newer
'05 is going in that same direction up here in northern
NY state at 90K but I don't think the engine will last as long with all these issues. I'm going to change to the
one piece spark plugs in the summer, but if I can't
correct those other engine issues myself for alot less than that $1600, I'm going to get rid of this thing.
Stephen

 

[JExpedition07]

I'd love to see a sticky that breaks it down to a shopping list of what you need to fix the problem.
I have 90K on mine and ever since I owned it from 46K,
it would occasionally have what I think was that wind up
noise of the timing chain tightening as the tensioners
extended out from the delay in oil pressure from a cold start. I 've watched the Ford Tech, "Makuloco" YouTubes
that address alot of these issues, like upgraded oil
pump with a stiffer backing plate and something about
modifying or eliminating the variable cam timing issue.
If you can spend a weekend, take off the timing cover and replace everything with upgraded parts, it would be great
to have the piece of mind of a truly high mileage engine.
I got 250 K out of my 2 valve engine in the first gen '97
that I had and had to get rid of that truck because the body desintegrated way before the engine. My newer
'05 is going in that same direction up here in northern
NY state at 90K but I don't think the engine will last as long with all these issues. I'm going to change to the
one piece spark plugs in the summer, but if I can't
correct those other engine issues myself for alot less than that $1600, I'm going to get rid of this thing.
Stephen

You can get the entire OEM Ford Genuine Parts updated timing job set on Amazon for $835. That is phasers, chains, tensioners guides, everything behind the timing cover. There are aftermarket solutions that are cheaper, but do use OEM phaser wheels.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...Code=as2&linkId=W2NNMVDPJUAM4EK2&tag=fordt-20

 

[darmahsd]

That's interesting. Plus the Melling oil pump brings
it to over $900 in parts. Still better than $1600
to have it done, and there you're not sure you're getting everything, like the oil pump etc.
Pretty big piece of change when you're doing it yourself.
Thanks for the link.
Stephen

 

[deweysmith]

That also doesn't include solenoids and it's recommended you change those too, the newer ones have a revised screen on the incoming oil flow.

 

[JExpedition07]

That's interesting. Plus the Melling oil pump brings
it to over $900 in parts. Still better than $1600
to have it done, and there you're not sure you're getting everything, like the oil pump etc.
Pretty big piece of change when you're doing it yourself.
Thanks for the link.
Stephen

Most of the oil pressure issues on these engines are misdiagnosed as an oil pump which usually is not the case. it’s normally failed tensioner seals seeping oil internally. I’d say 90% of the time this updated parts kit will fix any issues with oil pressure. If you have oil pressure concerns ford issued a tsb to switch to 5W-30 somewhere along the line to slightly increase pressure at operating temp. Still not a bad idea to change the pump if your in there.

 

[darmahsd]

So right now, if I do nothing else, just switching to
5W30 from the recommended 20 weight I've been using
will help things along? This was a Ford TSB?
Stephen

 

[darmahsd]

So right now, if I do nothing else, will switching to
10W-30 from the factory recommended 20 weight
help things along? This is a Ford TSB?
Stephen

 

[1955moose]

See I remember quite a few on this forum state the opposite, switch from 5/30 to 5/20. Prices are going to vary quite a bit on your repairs, depending on what's changed. If they drop the pan, and change oil pump too, recommended, for 2 reasons, 1, pieces of the chain guides are in the pan, and 2, quite a few here state that with certainty, that the oem pump is a weak link. I guess bottom line is, if your capable, and have the time, we always condone do it yourself. I've never had any luck with lower priced shops in the past myself, so you might consider doing the job yourself, I would!

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[Boose]

Honestly, I'd say at this point the filter you use is more critical then 5/20 vs 5/30. Try a filter without a bypass valve. Before I did the timing job on my 05, I started using a WIX filter. It helped with the noise a bit. I run WIX in my boat, I see a significant increase in oil pressure at temperature when compared to others. 10-15 PSI when hot...

 

[darmahsd]

From what I've seen, the pan doesn't need to be dropped
to change the pump on these engines, like on a SBC. I don't think my tensioner guides are that far gone yet. If there is any plastic material from the tensioners in the pan, it's not going anywhere if I don't have to drop it.
Stephen

 

[simondog6]

Actually, if the timing chain guide is verified broken, I HIGHLY recommend to drop the oil pan and clean out the oil pump pickup. I pulled mine and several pieces of the timing chain guide had lodged inbetween the screen and bottom of the pickup, causing a 60-70% blockage. I had to remove the pickup and dislodge the pieces manually. They were really stuck in there. I'd hate for you to do all the other work and still have an engine failure due to oil starvation.