bloodhound
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07Navi has been a pain-in-the-ass ***** since showing up here six months ago and ruining this forum. Report me, ban me, I don't really care.
Oil and Filter time...
- Thread starter Jamo
- Start date
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07navi
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Now that I have ruined the whole forum with my occasional expert advice to help everyone in here maybe you should look into an anger management class.
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mjp2
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Put him on ignore. If enough people do it he'll eventually be screaming into the void and will hopefully just leave.
07navi
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Yea, that guy is always trying to help people with his vast former experience, maybe he will go away.
chuck s
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There seem to be a few "missing" posts here. I appreciate the posting of the oil analysis.
As for the "or every 12 months" criteria I pulled a sample from my S2000 roadster and the oil still looks like new. No oil change this year for this car. But I only drive it 2000 miles last year.
We're up to 44 posts in this thread so I can safely note (probably again) we don't change the oil in our (the Army's) tanks until the oil analysis requires it.
UP!
On the way!
-- Chuck
As for the "or every 12 months" criteria I pulled a sample from my S2000 roadster and the oil still looks like new. No oil change this year for this car. But I only drive it 2000 miles last year.
We're up to 44 posts in this thread so I can safely note (probably again) we don't change the oil in our (the Army's) tanks until the oil analysis requires it.
UP!
On the way!
-- Chuck
chuck s
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Yeah, the turbines are much more expensive.
Your engine.
Your money.
Your sleep.
-- Chuck
Your engine.
Your money.
Your sleep.
-- Chuck
chuck s
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It appears the "missing" comments are set to "ignored" on my end.
-- Chuck
-- Chuck
inmanlanier
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The unfortunate real consequence to changing oil more frequently than required is 'maintenance induced failures'. In the industry I retired from the estimates were that 30% of all failures were due to faulty or poorly performed maintenance by the technicians - hence the phrase maintenance induced.
I got a hand-me-down older Lincoln in great shape (or so I thought) from my parents. They were very good with maintenance (of course performed by others). They relented to and obliged the ridiculous oil change intervals that were 'required' by their local Firestone (also 3000 miles). Not long after the car was passed on to us, my wife called me - she was on the side of the road. The oil light came on, and as instructed, she immediately pulled off the road and shut down the motor (idiot light - no gauge). It turns out the threads had been stripped by the Firestone gorillas and one of those crappy oversized plugs had been installed (which later fell out). I was unable to find anything that would work. I had to drop the pan to replace it - what a pain. 18 months later the engine developed a rod knock; I replaced the shortblock. I am 100% certain that rod knock originated with the oil loss, likely enough delay when the oil drained to when she saw the light and pulled over.
So... beware - all is good changing more than needed until the minimum wage gorillas screw up your drain plug and don't tell you. This one cost us the motor.
I got a hand-me-down older Lincoln in great shape (or so I thought) from my parents. They were very good with maintenance (of course performed by others). They relented to and obliged the ridiculous oil change intervals that were 'required' by their local Firestone (also 3000 miles). Not long after the car was passed on to us, my wife called me - she was on the side of the road. The oil light came on, and as instructed, she immediately pulled off the road and shut down the motor (idiot light - no gauge). It turns out the threads had been stripped by the Firestone gorillas and one of those crappy oversized plugs had been installed (which later fell out). I was unable to find anything that would work. I had to drop the pan to replace it - what a pain. 18 months later the engine developed a rod knock; I replaced the shortblock. I am 100% certain that rod knock originated with the oil loss, likely enough delay when the oil drained to when she saw the light and pulled over.
So... beware - all is good changing more than needed until the minimum wage gorillas screw up your drain plug and don't tell you. This one cost us the motor.
inmanlanier
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I found an interesting YouTube blog that goes into Mobil1 20,000 mile oil and how they test the product to meet that claim. I was quite impressed with the rigor and science by which they test the products to validate the ratings:
href="https://youtu.be/l-zDt9FGJi8">https://youtu.be/l-zDt9FGJi8
On a related note, for those of you who subscribe to extended intervals - you may have noted the different ratings for synthetic oils now, all based on miles driven. Apparently the basis for this is one of the additives (can't remember which one) that the greatest impact on extended life. The EPA has determined that there are health detriments to the product getting into the atmosphere after combustion or something like that. For OEM oils now, the manufacturers purportedly must limit the amount of that additive (and I suspect also on base oil products from the oil manufacturers). For whatever reason we can still buy the oils that last long mileage - don't know if they use alternate additives now or simply have a reduced percentage of the product they manufacture and sell with the higher concentrations.
In any case, the video is worth viewing IMHO.
href="https://youtu.be/l-zDt9FGJi8">https://youtu.be/l-zDt9FGJi8
On a related note, for those of you who subscribe to extended intervals - you may have noted the different ratings for synthetic oils now, all based on miles driven. Apparently the basis for this is one of the additives (can't remember which one) that the greatest impact on extended life. The EPA has determined that there are health detriments to the product getting into the atmosphere after combustion or something like that. For OEM oils now, the manufacturers purportedly must limit the amount of that additive (and I suspect also on base oil products from the oil manufacturers). For whatever reason we can still buy the oils that last long mileage - don't know if they use alternate additives now or simply have a reduced percentage of the product they manufacture and sell with the higher concentrations.
In any case, the video is worth viewing IMHO.
Regardless of what high mileage claims are made. I will always change at a maximum 3000 miles or 100 engine hours. Even the owns manual says to stick with their recommend change intervals when using extended oil drain interval oils. To each their own I rather change oil than internal engine parts or turbos.
Everyone is entitled to do what they wish but changing modern oils on Modern engines at 3,000 miles is in reality, a waste of money. There have been plenty of used oil analysis done on motor oils going by quality life index and the car says and they are almost always spot-on. If you are changing oil at 3000 Miles that still has 85% of its life left then you are actually throwing good money away. Most of these vehicles will go a very long life span, longer than most people need or even expect with even neglected oil changes so doing it when you're supposed to or even slightly before is just fine but the 3,000 Mi interval thing was just a scam perpetuated by Jiffy Lube and the Quick Change Oil places that sprang up on every corner in the 80s.
Also, there is a point to which you get no extra benefit or protection or longer life from parts.
The problem is we really never know the exact balance point here.
In a controlled situation you could have a constant supply of fresh oil in your engine at all times and there is no guarantee that would make internal engine parts last any longer than changing the oil at 3,000 miles, 5,000 miles, or 7,500 miles.
We all have to do what makes us feel good or at least better but I can guarantee that in most all applications oil that is changed and disposed of at 3000 miles had plenty Perfect protection and miles left in it.
Then of course there's that other industry accepted thing about time. Look at people who change well I time basis even though they have very few miles on it. They want to convince you that once you open the original can of oil it starts to oxidize and degrade and all that stuff. Well that is a true fact it is so minimal it makes no difference.
There are factors that affect this like where the vehicle is stored Etc but most Vehicles could be parked in your garage and sit for four years with oil in it that had 500 miles on it and that oil after sitting for 4 years would still have 95% + of its life and protection if you were to analyze it as the new all you would put in that day.
Facts are one thing and real-world results are a thing also. What makes us feel all good and warm and fuzzy doesn't always necessarily coincide with these other two.
inmanlanier
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There is also the environmental impact. If we dump 5 times the oil to the dumps, that's actually a potentially significant impact.
To each his/her own - I just wanted to share what I thought was an enlightening methodology by Mobil oil.
To each his/her own - I just wanted to share what I thought was an enlightening methodology by Mobil oil.
I'm not going by any 3K scam perpetuated by anyone. I used to change engine oil and filter at 2,000 miles, I bumped it up about 20 years ago to 3000 after tearing down one engine. Say what you want but VCT engines and turbos need clean oil of the proper type and viscosity. One spec of crap and the VCT parts and turbos are done for. Oils do not get dumped, but either used for heating or recycled. I maintain a fleet of vehicles and off road equipment. I know what works and what the inside of any engines we need to tear into looks like for wear, sludge and deposits. Anyone who wants to reuse our drain oil, I'm sure we can arrange shipping it to you. LOL
Thomas Hardesty
Active Member
I change my oil and filter at least every 3000 miles! It’s not for me about WASTING MONEY! I have been a mechanic and worked on all my vehicles all my life! Engine oil is like blood! I want my system as clean and FRICTION FREE as possible! Never have I had an engine fail due to wear. Yes! Call me crazy, but my car is never in the shop fir repairs either! I also changed the tranny filter and fluid at 60,000. Cannot drain it all, so every time I changed the oil for 3 oil changes, I pumped out and replaced what I pumped out with fresh! So far even with 91,000 on my 2019 Eppy Limited, I have no issues?
The problem with statements like that of not having any auto problems or never having any engine wear issues because you have nothing else to compare it to.
You could change your oil every 3,000 miles and not have any problems or as someone else could take the same types of vehicles you have and do it at every 5000 and have the exact same results you do. Somebody else could do it at 7,500 and probably have the exact same results you do. Just because you change the oil every 2,500 to 3000 Miles isn't the magic reason that has occurred.
I have seen tons of vehicles and had many of them that had been neglected and rarely had the oil changed and yet they still go 250,000 miles and never so much as needing the valve covers off..
So just because one person says they change the oil every 3,000 miles and I never had an overrated failure that had very few problems. I can show you the opposite end of that it also have the same results of no engine failures or repair issues.
While it is true that VCT engines do need proper viscosity oil and any debris in their screens can cause lots of problems... Engine oils have come a long way and engines don't pollute the oil as much as they used to so if anything oil changes should be further apart and not closer together.
But as I said, everyone should do and is going to do what makes them feel good. Any anecdotal reports of results are really a moot point with absolutely no facts and nowhere near a proper scientific data to back up their statements are beliefs.
inmanlanier
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WOW - my intent to provide objective information to affirm or endorse a practice many espouse has turned into the classic my way is good - your way is bad. I apologize - that was not my intent.
Why can't we just share information rather than tell each other 'their is only one way'. As a point of fact, I've been running 15,000 to 20,000 mile intervals with synthetic oils for Lord knows how long and on how many vehicles(?). I've NEVER had any related failures to oil life. I ran Amsoil then Mobil 1 on my '84 Turbo GT Mustang (2.3L) with 15 psi boost on a race track where I did at least 10,000 plus track miles. The first time I put an oil temp gauge on the oil I exceeded 300 degrees F in 2 laps. Needless to say I then put an oil cooler on it. At many miles (80,000?) I finally blew a head gasket. The internals were immaculate. Do you know why I replaced the turbo not too much later? The cast iron exhaust turbine housing cracked from the heat cycles. That turbo still worked great with NO oil related issues. Let's not talk about the challenges of turbocharged motors on street cars - give me a break - nothing compares to the extreme duty I subjected that motor to in South Florida year round track event after track event. My physical track experience with all my cars (4 of them now) running synthetic at extended intervals demonstrates over and over the bunk to the need to change oil at intervals a fraction of what the factory says. C'mon - my Jag F type R has a 16,000 mile oil change interval - from Jaguar. Sure - they don't know what they're doing - yea right. They're dreaming. They don't know what they're doing.
I tried to be respectful at the last post I made at 11:44 AM today with the lead-in "for those of you who subscribe to extended intervals...". The hint there was don't start to tell those of us how wrong we are. All you gents that wish to cancel culture us who use technology and science to make our decisions - just let go please. Your data does not support your religion.
Why can't we just share information rather than tell each other 'their is only one way'. As a point of fact, I've been running 15,000 to 20,000 mile intervals with synthetic oils for Lord knows how long and on how many vehicles(?). I've NEVER had any related failures to oil life. I ran Amsoil then Mobil 1 on my '84 Turbo GT Mustang (2.3L) with 15 psi boost on a race track where I did at least 10,000 plus track miles. The first time I put an oil temp gauge on the oil I exceeded 300 degrees F in 2 laps. Needless to say I then put an oil cooler on it. At many miles (80,000?) I finally blew a head gasket. The internals were immaculate. Do you know why I replaced the turbo not too much later? The cast iron exhaust turbine housing cracked from the heat cycles. That turbo still worked great with NO oil related issues. Let's not talk about the challenges of turbocharged motors on street cars - give me a break - nothing compares to the extreme duty I subjected that motor to in South Florida year round track event after track event. My physical track experience with all my cars (4 of them now) running synthetic at extended intervals demonstrates over and over the bunk to the need to change oil at intervals a fraction of what the factory says. C'mon - my Jag F type R has a 16,000 mile oil change interval - from Jaguar. Sure - they don't know what they're doing - yea right. They're dreaming. They don't know what they're doing.
I tried to be respectful at the last post I made at 11:44 AM today with the lead-in "for those of you who subscribe to extended intervals...". The hint there was don't start to tell those of us how wrong we are. All you gents that wish to cancel culture us who use technology and science to make our decisions - just let go please. Your data does not support your religion.
Exactly! While we are entitled to do things however we want because it's our money and our cars... we aren't entitled to tell other people that they are wrong or that our way is better than their way just because we believe it personally!
The entire problem, as with everything it seems today, is people are unwilling to allow someone else to have their own ways or opinions even if it ends up with the same results. They will come up with some story to explain how what they do is better.
It's really ridiculous and just shows their close-mindedness and how opinionated they are.
Why don't we just be honest and say like I do. I don't need a reason to do what I do. I do it because I want to do it that way! End of story.
But I certainly don't try to rationalize it and try to explain that my way is better.
It makes me wonder if someone who changes the oil every two to three thousand miles if they don't have fuel injected cars because they're stuck in the 70s and prior with carburetors.
I get it! I hate change but technology doesn't stop.
You can prove it over and over that high-quality oils for many thousands of miles give the exact same level of protection as another oil or even a lesser oil changed at 2,500 miles.
It's kind of an insane argument. It would be like having a large glass window and claiming that because you wash it every single week and keep his super clean that it's never cracked or broken whereas someone else can wash the window once a year or never wash it at all and more than likely the window is still sit there for the same number of years without being cracked or broken.
The entire problem, as with everything it seems today, is people are unwilling to allow someone else to have their own ways or opinions even if it ends up with the same results. They will come up with some story to explain how what they do is better.
It's really ridiculous and just shows their close-mindedness and how opinionated they are.
Why don't we just be honest and say like I do. I don't need a reason to do what I do. I do it because I want to do it that way! End of story.
But I certainly don't try to rationalize it and try to explain that my way is better.
It makes me wonder if someone who changes the oil every two to three thousand miles if they don't have fuel injected cars because they're stuck in the 70s and prior with carburetors.
I get it! I hate change but technology doesn't stop.
You can prove it over and over that high-quality oils for many thousands of miles give the exact same level of protection as another oil or even a lesser oil changed at 2,500 miles.
It's kind of an insane argument. It would be like having a large glass window and claiming that because you wash it every single week and keep his super clean that it's never cracked or broken whereas someone else can wash the window once a year or never wash it at all and more than likely the window is still sit there for the same number of years without being cracked or broken.
JasonH
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I've always done 7,500 mile changes with a synthetic blend or full synthetic. Never had an engine fail, and they were all driven past 200k miles.
And you will find this is the case on most modern engines! They pretty much had engines figured out by right around 1992 to 1996. Unfortunately as of around 2008-2012 they have been starting to go the other way and the longevity and durability without needing repairs is not what it once was.
Unfortunately with this extreme push for fuel mileage and horsepower I don't think even if you had a continual supply of fresh oil going through it it's going to make much difference on these items that the manufacturers are just accepting to be wear items that need to be replaced.
It is actually a bunch of bullcrap. I call it "Spinning the Money Wheel"
They want you to do it so they can generate business in the future. It helps their dealers, helps them sell replacement parts which also ends up helping the aftermarket companies, and even independent garages down the road.
But the fact remains that you can do your oil changes between 5,000 and 10000 miles and still have the same results and Longevity as someone to change the oil every 2,500 miles because of two main things. One - because the oil is better in many ways and two- because the engines are better than the ones from the qntiques all the way through the 80s that were basically worn out by a 100k miles.
