Oil and Filter time...

[chuck s]

Oil change interval is not dependent on geographical location to my knowledge. Earliest of 10,000 miles, 12 months, or the maintenance minder.

-- Chuck

 

[JExpedition07]

Ford does make mention of extreme climates in the manual and to shorten intervals accordingly.

 

[TobyU]

I'm only putting on about 7000 miles/year on my '17 so the oil/filter gets changed at the "or 12 months" interval. I've been curious about oil dilution with fuel and have a Blackstone sample scheduled for just prior to the next oil change. My lil' Honda gets a sample check annually. Pure synthetic in all my cars (and lawn mowers ).

-- Chuck

I'll chime in due to lawn mowers.
I am the lawnmower whisperer- at least that's what some of my online reviews say. Probably won't hurt anything with syn in mower but won't help. Probably won't get any more life as people don't wear out mower engines due to hours or use.
I actually have seen a few occurrences where I think syn was worse than conventional.
Most mowers spec for a st 30 or HD 30 and that is the best for these.
I have had at least small handful that slipped a valve guide or seat on synthetic with not cooling fin debris buildup or other reason for overheating and one did it the first time I put full syn in it the first time in its life of 21 years at the time.
Now, maybe it would have slipped the guide the same time if I had put the 30wt reg I had been putting in it for 7 years but I overworked it at least worked it very hard every time I used it. I put full syn in it and the 3 mow or so it lost a cyl.

Fixed it and put Valvoline VR1 dino straight 30 and haven't used syn in it since.
Coincidence: Time Life books PRESENTS----Mysteries or the Unknown.

Seen similar 2-3 other times. Not enough scientific (or even close to it) tests to rally know, but I do know that very few people will ever wear out a mower from use do syn is at least overkill and extra money.
I don't see any extra protection it can give you (if you want that put VR1 or Rotella 15w-40 or STP to get high zinc) over HD30 and I think in some instanced it can offer less forgiveness.

There have been tests showing differentials getting hotter with syn fluid than dino gear lube.
I know it goes against everything we know and want to believe about superior synthetics but in certain applications real world results can be odd to say the least.

 

[chuck s]

Yep, pure synthetic motor oil is extra money and overkill (but overkill always works) in most engines. What is really expensive, though, is changing the engine oil long before it needs changing.

All my 4-stroke engines, even the lawn mowers, specify 10W-30 and 10W-30 is 10W-30 no matter how or by whom it's made. The Subaru 3.6R is now the biggest engine in our garage since the 3.5 EB V6 replaced the 5.4 V8, and is the only engine of ours that specifies pure synthetic. Oil change requirement is cut in half with conventional oil.

The only reason I run pure synthetic in my lawn mowers is it's on hand. My Honda S2000 roadster is now 13 years old and if pure synthetic offers any benefit, even trivial, it gets it. Five quarts of 5W-30 only because Royal Purple doesn't have a 0W-30. I change that oil at home and what's left over goes in the mowers. But the additional expense is about that of a lunch at Five Guys and I can skip one of these every year. Call it two as the Expedition gets serviced annually at the dealer and pure synthetic goes in the engine there too.

Most engine oil discussions seem to be emotional. The Amsoil disciples stop just short of claiming it cures cancer.

-- Chuck

 

[TobyU]

Yep, pure synthetic motor oil is extra money and overkill (but overkill always works) in most engines. What is really expensive, though, is changing the engine oil long before it needs changing.

All my 4-stroke engines, even the lawn mowers, specify 10W-30 and 10W-30 is 10W-30 no matter how or by whom it's made. The Subaru 3.6R is now the biggest engine in our garage since the 3.5 EB V6 replaced the 5.4 V8, and is the only engine of ours that specifies pure synthetic. Oil change requirement is cut in half with conventional oil.

The only reason I run pure synthetic in my lawn mowers is it's on hand. My Honda S2000 roadster is now 13 years old and if pure synthetic offers any benefit, even trivial, it gets it. Five quarts of 5W-30 only because Royal Purple doesn't have a 0W-30. I change that oil at home and what's left over goes in the mowers. But the additional expense is about that of a lunch at Five Guys and I can skip one of these every year. Call it two as the Expedition gets serviced annually at the dealer and pure synthetic goes in the engine there too.

Most engine oil discussions seem to be emotional. The Amsoil disciples stop just short of claiming it cures cancer.

-- Chuck

True, and most of us do whatever makes us feel good but we should admit that that's why we do it. Because it makes us feel good. Nobody out there has had an engine only lasts a hundred twenty five thousand because they didn't use synthetic oil. And people out there that have engines that last 300,000 that run synthetic, it's not because they ran synthetic. Plenty of other real world evidence with people using standard oils getting the same results. As you mentioned it's more about the oil change interval that it is the type of oil you use. Synthetics will allow you to go longer between changes and up with the same result of wear and protection. So you can spend a little bit more money and not changing his often and probably break even or maybe even save a little bit in the long run.
Is all of your lawn mower spec 10 W 30 then you must have a Honda or a Kohler Command. We must be talking about push mowers. Honda Market saturation is well under 30% and actually probably more like under 20. Honda's do dominate or at least used to and pressure washers and generators but they have never had a very big Market saturation on walk behind mowers and even lower on Riders.
The only lawn mowers over the past 30 years that are mainstream popular that spec 10 W 30 or any multi-grade oil are Hondas and color commands. Every other mower of the past 30 years has recommended 30 weight straight oil. Yes, Briggs & Stratton manuals 10 years ago started to say that 10w30 may be used as a replacement but increased oil consumption may occur. It would occur and it also wouldn't protect as well.
A lot of the newer lauson engines from China are also calling for 10 w30 probably because they are just mostly Honda clones and they copy what Honda recommended.
There is no reason I can find that Honda specified a 10 W 30 other than to make it easier for them and use the same oil across their range of products.
Most of their engines are on items that are only used in temperature is above 50 or 60 degrees anyways.
I am not a Honda fan nor a fan of their design and multiple ways but they are dependable and durable engines. I still would choose another one over a Honda though.
It does amaze me that Honda has just never have any problems with your timing belt. I thin little cogs timing belt code in oil all the time that last 20-plus years. That's obviously a very good quality built. I hope the new ones continue to be made out of the same quality of materials.
The block being split on a 45 degree angle is terribly stupid also. This reminds me of the Mercruiser outboard engines. Integral block and heads are never a good idea. That's what the Honda has. If you have to remove a valve you have to split the case and pull it out from the inside. Of course that word right there split the case that is a Japanese motorcycle invention anyways. Can't stand that either. Shared transmission and engine crankcase is an absolute nightmare. I know in that case they did it for space conservation. There are a couple of motorcycles I believe Kawasaki that has a cassette style transmission that you can slide out of the side. I haven't worked on myself and don't know how easy it is or if the entire transmission can be changed but that sounds like the best approach overall. So many high performance motorcycles had problems mainly with 2nd gear popping out and had to have the Transmissions removed and the gears undercut. Motorcycle Transmissions are an absolute hellish nightmare design anyways.
The back to mower. Briggs & Stratton has been the number one manufacturer of small air-cooled gasoline engines for decades and decades. They by far dominated the market. Tecumsah also had a lot of motors especially when they had their contract with Toro for well over a decade. All of these engines are recommended to use straight 30. These alone account for 80% of the engines in existence on mowers.

Any lawn mower under air-cooled high heat conditions, a 30 weight protects better than a 10 W 30 Interventional. That when you start comparing a 10 W 30 synthetic to a 30 conventional it'***** or miss and all bets are off. Wevwould probably get different variations of protection with different brands and with different engines. I will not blanketly say that either one protects better in the application.
But getting back to the point that basically no engine failures are repairs on lawn mowers are caused from lack of quality lubrication and the weight of motor oil it really doesn't matter. Oil related issues with lawn mowers stem from not having enough oil because people don't check it! I get handfuls and every year that are locked up or hard to pull because they don't have any oil on the stick when they bring them to me. They have a problem and it quits running and 80% of the people don't even think to check the oil. They don't realize they are not higher quality and higher performance engines like a car. They are low performance little turds.
They have blow-by, they use oil, they see and they leak. Yes even Hondas, every Honda leaks some oil around the governor shaft seal.
And talk about performance, a 2019 597cc lawn mower engine doesn't even have 22 horsepower. A late 80s early 90s 600cc Japanese sportbike which actually was more like 590 and sometimes fewer because they really round up, had 100 or more.
Yes they had four cylinders but each cylinder puts out as much as the one cylinder in a lawn mower so why does a lawn mower need a cylinder that's 600 cc's the only put out 20 horsepower when the motorcycle can do it with 150cc cylinder?
Low performance turds I tell you.

 

[inmanlanier]

Oil change interval is not dependent on geographical location to my knowledge. Earliest of 10,000 miles, 12 months, or the maintenance minder.

-- Chuck

For quite some time back in the day I tried to find the basis for annual changes. I could conclude absolutely no valid technical reason (considering modern synthetics). I believe it originated in the day (with the 3,000 mile change interval mandate) as a result of condensation in the oil. I think it was more of a challenge to the additive packages, in that some contaminants would bond with the water and form acids or some other bad compounds. The water would form when you shut the car down, and then the engine cools in a very cold environment (condensation in the oil pan walls, valve covers, etc.). Of course, when you start it up again, the engine heats up to temperature and evaporates the condensate (that's why engines have thermostats). From what I recall, it was the period of time that the water was in the oil that was bad, and the additive packages were not totally impervious to bad solutions being formed. As a result in cold climates, every time you shut the engine down, you generate a small amount of condensate and challenge the additives over and over until you get to better weather and the condensation is essentially eliminated.

Purportedly the additive packages today are far superior to in the day and as a result are more impervious to issues. There is no date code expiration gene they build into the synthetic hydrocarbon chains. The oil does not know it's age from a time perspective. Note there is not shelf life expiration date on a bottle of oil. I've never seen a study that says additive packages degrade with time. They certainly degrade with miles. If you live in an area with virtually no situations that the condensate forms, IMHO you are not at risk running beyond a year.

Why do you still see the recommendation? I think it's for the same reason as you still hear from the pundits saying you must change every 3,000 miles - revenue on the merchant side.

I have found it curious that cars that require synthetic for warranty (e.g. my Jag F Type R) have finally broken the 7500 mile paradigm and gone to long mileage intervals BUT do still keep the calendar requirement (the Jag requirement is 16,000 miles, or 12 months - whichever is first). Since Jag is changing mine at no cost to me now, no problem. After I'm out of warranty, however I'll likely go miles only on the synthetic (may check after 12 months for grins).

 

[TobyU]

For manufacturers I think it's just a cover-your-ass situation. But it all stems from the old days or 3 months or 3000 Miles convincing American people that we need to change your oil so often so they could build all those Jiffy Lubes and create the giant quick oil change industry that was created.
You see there's only like 30 to 50% of them still in existence today. So obviously they needed that to build an industry and to stay in business.
I have never been a supporter of changing oil based on time. It doesn't change it that much to sit there exposed to a little bit of air. Funny enough the way you mention all doesn't go bad on the Shelf, my son and I were at Meijer yesterday and they had recently changed their oil side to the chemical side and Kimbrel side to the other side. I don't know if they found this bottle laying behind the shelf or not but there was a bottle of Valvoline standard 5w 20. Now being 5w 20 it couldn't be that old but it was 2006 printed on the bottle.
I noticed it because it was a different bottle design than the current ones and had a white cap instead of the blue cap and it was all yellow and weathered looking. The white plastic had turned all yellow over the years. It was unopened.
I checked the UPC and the code was exactly the same as the current ones so we figured somebody must have brought it back.
I just had a Facebook tirade educating people on returns at department stores last week. Those employees don't care. If it has any sort of package and they can scan it they will give you a merchandise credit for it.
He took a picture of it. I will post it when he sends it to me.

 

[TobyU]

Here it is.

SM too. I want SL back!

 

[Matt_N]

M1 5w-30 and an M1 or Purolator filter.

 

[inmanlanier]

I'll chime in due to lawn mowers.

I don't see any extra protection it [synthetic] can give you (if you want that put VR1 or Rotella 15w-40 or STP to get high zinc) over HD30 and I think in some instanced it can offer less forgiveness. ... I know it goes against everything we know and want to believe about superior synthetics but in certain applications real world results can be odd to say the least.

You are correct. All of today's oils are outstanding and last well within the manufacturer's recommendation. Some of us, however use the synthetics for a variety of reasons - one of the big ones for me is race track driving. I have driven all of my performance cars on race tracks, and stock oiling systems are not sufficient enough to cool the oil. As such, on a race track with a factory car, unless you've installed oil cooling (which I had to finally do on my '84 Turbo GT Mustang) - the oil gets very hot. This is where the synthetics shine; they don't break down until higher temperatures. The dyno oil will not last. So... in some cases there are applications where synthetic is a must - race tracks being one of them.