Replace seized engine or replace truck? NEWBIE NEEDS HALP

[Matthew M Davis]

My 98 Expy EB 5.4L seized 2 months ago. Since then, I've been waffling between replacing it and replacing the engine.

Considerations-

-4r100 tranny was solid before seizure, no detectable leaks or issues with what's in the reservoir currently

-needs new muffler and exhaust, but everything in front of and including the Y is solid

-still need to fix windshield leak

-if I replace the engine and the truck is toast, it will take me a couple months to build up to a replacement, months I no longer have

-I bought it in June of this year and put about $800 into brakes and front suspension

-local engines range from $400-600, with 135k to 85k miles, respectively.

-I'm a musician, not a mechanic. I did the front suspension work myself, with borrowed tools, through attrition and because I'm apparently at least not too stupid to work on things like this, but this would be a multi-week project in Oct/Nov in Illinois, again with borrowed tools and attrition and youtube as a guide

I DID find a 2011 Expedition XL with 65k miles locally for under $10k asking price, which is becoming more attractive with every ° the temperature drops below 50.

Given this info, should I go for fixing the known quantity of issues on this truck, or start over with newer and *slightly* less likely to break me financially though monthly repairs? Any tips, advice, or informed opinions of any kind are welcome. Y'all are the best, and I appreciate it.

 

[stamp11127]

"I'm a musician, not a mechanic"

You've answered your question. Brake jobs are one thing, engine swaps are a totally different beast. Toss in your location, time of year and it would be an uphill battle unless you have a heated garage.

You Tube is good for basic info, what happens when you run into something that wasn't covered in the video, or the information is just wrong?

 

[mossback]

Go for the 2011, boss.

 

[JExpedition07]

Get the 2011, the 5.4 3V and 6R80 are a dramatic improvement in power. Everything down to bolts and wiring harnesses are much newer. If you were mechanically inclined great, but if not the 98 can be a nightmare.

 

[Plati]

Do both.
Get the new one and give a shot at refurb the old one while in no hurry.
Sell one if you get both working

 

[Trainmaster]

Go for the new truck. You'll forget about the money it costs long before the old one stops giving you trouble. You're buying peace of mind and solutions to problems that you haven't even met yet.

The car's 23 years old. It deserves retirement.

 

[jeff kushner]

For those who haven't done the math, fixing a car is 99% of time, cheaper than replacement.

That said, this is an easy one......present truck is 20+ years old, EVERY component, wheel bearings, differential, emissions, electrical, fuse box all 20+ years old.

Cost to replace an engine of a truck owned for less than 6 months......after spending another grand on brakes, suspension in my opinion is tossing good after bad. I know it hurts but many of us have been there before....there's no shame in dumping a bad buy.



Sell and salvage what money you can and buy the newer truck.

jeff

 

[Matthew M Davis]

I guess I just needed to hear it from external sources, because all this makes great sense. Thanks a lot, folks.

I like the idea of keeping it and working on it over time, too. I can practice on it whatever work I end up doing on its replacement.

 

[Plati]

Theres a lot of good advice on engine swap here on this Forum
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/compression-test-01-navigator.40411/page-16#post-365120

 

[Gary Waugh]

having owned a 98, expedition a 03, an 08 and a 2011 I would suggest going for the new truck, 65K miles is nothing, the engine and transmission improved significantly since 98 and it will be so much more reliable!! The 2011 doesn't have the dodgy spark plugs, etc.. As stated if you can get an engine and swap it over next year (when its warmer) you can probably sell the old one to recover some of your money, but I think going for the $10K truck is a much better bet.

Gary

 

[TobyU]

It's just not worth it. You will have at least 600 in engine and parts and then if you pay someone to do the labor about 1000 more....at least 800.
I'm not stuck on a low newer 10K truck either. Plenty of good vehicles 6k and under.
Even when yours is fixed it is probably only worth less than 3500. You can find a lot of 2002 and older for under 3000.
Now if you can keep it and fix it later--bonus.
It is not that hard to swap and engine and after it is done you always say...That wasn't that bad.
You will need a used or cheap 129.99 harbor freight engine hoist and get you a used 40 engine stand off marketplace too.
They really come out rather quickly. I just pulled a V10 in Excursion last month. I pulled another and swapped this one in a few years ago.

Remove air filter assembly after unhooking wires to it.

Pull radiator and shroud and fan clutch.

Remove battery. Remove serp belt and alternator.

Take power steering bolts (3) and push to side.

Remove AC compressor bolts and push to other side.

Remove coolant overflow tank lower rad hose assembly.

Use spring clip tool or cut piece of spray paint cap rolled to unhook fuel lines behind engine.

Remove 8 or 10mm center bolt in wiring harness connector and unhook and disconnect the other 1-2 large multi connectors.

Unhook heater hose to manifold and other vacuum lines going to chassis etc.

Take top two trans to eng bolts out from top (sometimes easier) use a gearwrench style box end. 14mm

Remove any bolt holding trans dipstick to pass head.

Jack it up remove STARTER but leave it wires on it just let it hang and sit on floor then take torque converter flexplate shield off 13mm. Remove 4-6 converter to flexplate (flywheel) bolts as you have someone turn the crank bolt clockwise from center to get to each bolt.

Remove oil filter.

Remove remaining trans to eng bolts I think 6 total including the 2 you removed from the top.

Take motor mount bolts loose. Excursions only have one large nut on each side. I think expys have 2-3. I leave the mount on the engine and just remove whatever bolts hold it to frame.

Cut or twist until they break the two bolts holding each pipe to exhaust manifold. They certainly will not unscrew unless you have impact and are lucky. Even then, not likely.

Let car down and let air out of front tires. Because cheap harbor freight is not ideal but will work. Lol

Use short piece of chain only 2-3 links at end of hoist to hook and short piece maybe less than 14 inches to hook to engine from fron cover large bolt or head etc.
You CAN pull the engine with intake/COPS wiring and HOOD still on car. Done it twice!
But you have to be close to eng with hoist to get enough height.
On the V10 it's much easier to turn the engine sideways once you raise it up a foot and a half or so as soon as the top of outer eng of valve cover will clear above the rad support rail. But I think a 5.4 will come put easily enough keeping it forward.

You only need a few hand tools like ratchet with 10mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm and whatever fits the front balancer crank bolt. A 1/2 inch or breaker bar to snap off exhaust bolts unless you have cut off tool.
Fuel line release 2 sizes usually.
Pliers to release various clamps.

I could do one now in 1.5 to 1.75 hrs if I were in a hurry.

 

[guspech750]

Junk old truck. Pick up the newer one.

A motor swap is a big deal. It would be very easy for someone who’s not a mechanic or automotive enthusiast to become discouraged over an engine swap.

I’d say buy the new truck. Then if you want. Try fixing the old one to keep or sell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rjdelp7]

What is the mileage on the old one? The 1st gens can go 300K, but were best 1999-2002. A 2011 is 9yrs old. It will be needing some work at 65k and will only get worse. $10K sounds a bit high. I bought mine around 8yrs old/78K($6,600) and I have fixed almost everything. I probably put over $5,000 in it over the years. I would look around for a nice, rust free, low mileage 1999-2002. They made and sold a ton of them. The ones on the road have been taken care of and go for around $2,200- 4,500.

 

[Frank Swygert]

The only maintenance issue with the newer truck that will hit you is possibly changing the spark plugs. I would think that by 2011 they didn't use the dreaded two-piece spark plugs that tend to break off when changing, but you don't have to change until 100K miles OR you start to get a random misfire code. Mine was doing that when I bought it about a year ago, but it's a 2005 and had 99K and some change... 400-500 away from 100K. I took one close look then paid a shop to change the plugs... just under $600. The low miles and it looked more like a 2011 than a 2005, plus the $8K price, is why I got it. About $1000 in maintenance items was needed (counting the plugs), and it has one or two small issues (driver's seat heater doesn't work... I'm in SC... don't care!), but nothing pressing.

My other car is a 1963 Rambler Classic wagon with a Jeep 4.0L in it (that's the 64+ Rambler six with a new head and EFI added, by the way, so easy fit). You can quickly have more money in an older vehicle than it's worth. I AM a decent mechanic, so I did 99% of the mechanical work myself, and about half the paint work (primed and sanded, let a pro shop spray final color and clear). I have about what my car is worth in it NOT COUNTING THE HOURS OF LABOR. I love the thing, and have been driving it since I built it in 2003 though. The only way to get my money out of it is to drive/enjoy it out! I'd have spent more than $12K on a newer vehicle and not enjoyed it as much over the years, so it's a win for me. Unless you REALLY love that old one for some reason you're better off to get the newer vehicle though.

 

[TobyU]

The plugs usually don't break off if you soak them or use a 3/8 impact. I just can't fathom paying a garage that much to change plugs but if you walk in with a Ford for a "tune-up" they'll get you for 850 to $1,100.
They always want to replace the coils which don't need to be replaced that early actually only when one starts misfiring after it already has a new plug on it. Plus, the coils are super easy to do compared to the plugs.

 

[JExpedition07]

I’ve done the spark plugs myself on both my 2007 Expys. The issue is blown way out of proportion, work careful and have the proper tools. Not one has broken on me.

 

[jeff kushner]

Not sure about the worries. My '17 now has 78k....it needs no work, nada.....a well-cared for vehicle can easy see over 100K w/o work.


If you shop well and know your source, there are plenty of undervalued trucks......for instance, many, many used cars/trks sold on the East coast originate at the Auctions in NC, VA and PA to a lesser extent. YOU will easily pay 3-5 times the actual auction sale price. These vehicles are often not so well-cared for....consider THEIR source(nopays, slow-pays, bad credit...most are repops & drug seized vehicles...) and you'll understand that Car Care wasn't high on their financial priority list! A local CL buy, if you have the energy to deal with the BS that sometimes comes with CL shopping, can be a safer source.

Most of us have been at the xroads before.....heck, my condensing gas furnace died yesterday so we all go through this.....

I have often thought this stuff should be taught to some degree in High school. Better to discuss repair/replace, shopping options, negotiating skills when they aren't real then facing them for the 1st time when they are.

Good luck,
jeff

 

[Tuckman]

Just a thought, did you remove the serpentine belt to confirm the seized motor? I got a cheap 2011 Expedition Max that was just a bad ac compressor.

 

[RustyOval]

I'm with most of the others. Get the newer truck and check the service records. I write down in the manual everytime I do something. VCT soleniods, alternator, tranny flush, brakes and so on. If anyone every decides to buy it from me they can buy in confidence that it has been cared for. The newer truck WITH service records would be a no brainer IMO.