Top Tier Gas

[Craigga542]

There is a government standard to meet top tier requirements, you know how that works. A few manufacturers are saying its to low in the US. My argument is buy gas from someone who owns a refinery. Valero has refineries. Chevron has Techron that is above and beyond gov standards. Shell has V-power, that’s like 4 times the gov standards. But the Op does not want a brand war. I personally like Shell and Chevron. When top tier first became a thing Quick Trip and Chevron where one of the first to offer it. Costco and Quick Trip have both said they would only buy fuel from premium vendors but you really don’t know what you’re getting unless you know what refinery they bought it from. I would buy gas from any major chain and not feel bad. I do believe the EcoBoost needs to be ran hard a couple times a month more so than having the best gas every tank. It helps keep the waste gate from sticking, knocks valve deposits off, pushed water and oil out of the CAC and it’s fun.


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Thanks Fozzy, appreciate that input

 

[FormerGermanFan]

Unfortunately the Costco is quite a bit further away in an area I never go to. QT and the Sam’s fills up frequently, so no issues there. Will be buying a flood warranty, but still trying to rule out any inconveniences along the way. We are a busy family and always on the move.

Sounds like there’s not many issues going on related to fuel, just that Ford recommends top tier same as the higher octane for best results.

I understand that for sure, going to the dealer can be a hassle. I wish Ford provided the same valet repair service they do on Lincolns - considering these trucks cost more than most Lincolns!

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

Listen, it's all about price. I drove a fuel truck for years before I retired. We'd leave one terminal and go down the street to another terminal to save a penny. Very few refine gas anymore. Every station you can think of (costco, Flying J/Pilot, Sunoco, BP, Shell, Marathon, the little guy no one's heard of) all load their trucks at the same place, out of the same huge storage tank, from the same pipeline. True, some have separate "additive" tanks, but the additive is SO small a percentage (I forget now, but under 0.5%), it doesn't matter. As said above....buy from a station that sells a lot. You don't want that crap laying around. Gas pretty much is GAS.

 

[Fozzy]

Listen, it's all about price. I drove a fuel truck for years before I retired. We'd leave one terminal and go down the street to another terminal to save a penny. Very few refine gas anymore. Every station you can think of (costco, Flying J/Pilot, Sunoco, BP, Shell, Marathon, the little guy no one's heard of) all load their trucks at the same place, out of the same huge storage tank, from the same pipeline. True, some have separate "additive" tanks, but the additive is SO small a percentage (I forget now, but under 0.5%), it doesn't matter. As said above....buy from a station that sells a lot. You don't want that crap laying around. Gas pretty much is GAS.

We do 3rd party work at many refineries and a lot of them are going for the wax these days. We are currently at a small no name refinery and you will not see a Chevron truck load out of the rack. I need to ask one of the operators how they add the additives and detergents. If it’s actually injected at the load out rack or during the blending operations. Refineries are organized madness mixed with magic.


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[2018ExpyPlatinum]

Fozzy...yes, if additives are added, it's at the loading rack, just before it's finished loading. The gas comes up the pipeline from the refiner, goes into the storage tank, then into the trailer. It's all the same gas from the refiner and up the pipeline. At the terminal is where the additive (if any) and the ethanol is added. Let's not even discuss the butane. Yes, butane! One location where I loaded, there are four terminals. None are name brand. All owned by other suppliers (basically middle men), but send gas to everyone you can think of...Sunoco, BP, Shell, Pilot/Flying J, Marathon, Love's, Sheetz, Liberty, Exxon and others. Like I said, it's all the same.

 

[Dice Roll]

I’ll tell you this, I filled at top tier whenever Possible. I out cheap Kroger gas in my wife car all the time. Used fuel points there. It was costly.

basically the wife’s car carboned up. Techron additives were worthless at getting it lined out. I later saw a YouTube video where they ran several additives and looked in with a bore scope. Techron was a good one, but it just does so little with build up it’s not that big a deal.

ended up running sea foam through the pcv of that car a few times. Enough to choke it out. Only that way would it break stuff loose. Was incredible. Made a crunching sound. Only solved about 70% of the issue. Had to repeat that every so often.

so since the top tier gas feed car did so well, I’d buy that. Costco gas has been particularly good for me the last four years.

 

[Kmdcolo]

Gas is gas, nuff said. Grab a can of your favorite nitrogen based fuel system cleaner and dump it in every quarter if it makes you feel better.

Since tuning my truck (f150) I’ve learned not all gas is equal. On my engine monitor I can see how the ECU is adjusting timing based on the fuel quality. I’m driving my current tank till empty the trying another gas station.

Adding more detail. Ford ECUs have an OAR rating (octane adjustment ratio). My tuner lets me see this number and how the ECU is adjusting/limiting my time due to the octane and quality of the gas. Negative 1.00 is the goal.

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

Not going to argue, but after hauling it for years, gas is gas. Now, that being said....there is something to where you buy it, how long has it been sitting there, how often do they clean the filters, and the big one....is anything getting into the tank, i.e., dirty leaking IN, etc.

I've actually delivered to stations where the fill was down hill and rain water would enter the spill bucket. Not a big deal if they know that and pump the water out (I doubt they did), but not good news if they drained it INTO the tank. I've seen things and heard stories that you wouldn't believe.

 

[Retiredusps]

I ALSO DELIVERED GASOLINE FOR 20 YEARS. additive is added at the loading rack all controled by the customer computer card. customer can control the additive thru the terminal.Same gas from branded to unbranded use to see on computer print outs x amount of gallons transfered from MObil to citgo and from exxon. same gas all thru paper work.most in n.j. comes thru a pipe line some by barge.I have seen a sunoco barge cover the logo and head up river to getty and fill up. Also never buy prem. drivers make errors and cross drop I have done it many times. Also dealers will grease your palm to cross drop. If you car/ truck runs OK on what ever keep using it

 

[Grey ghost]

I got 87 octane fuel out of a 93 octane pump at a Sam's one time and I got a heavy dose of water in my Harley at a BJ's once. A couple bucks a tank isn't worth the risk. You may never have a problem. I do agree with using a station that pumps alot of fuel.

 

[JasonH]

Since tuning my truck (f150) I’ve learned not all gas is equal. On my engine monitor I can see how the ECU is adjusting timing based on the fuel quality. I’m driving my current tank till empty the trying another gas station.

Adding more detail. Ford ECUs have an OAR rating (octane adjustment ratio). My tuner lets me see this number and how the ECU is adjusting/limiting my time due to the octane and quality of the gas. Negative 1.00 is the goal.

Good timing. Came here to share that I hit -1 on my octane adjustment while towing for a 4th of July softball tournament. 24 gallons of Costco 93 and the rest was 87. Highest I'd seen was -.6 on 87.

 

[Going_Going_Gone]

In AZ there are no refineries. In the Phoenix area there is a pipeline terminal and a mega tank farm. The strangest story I was ever told was that the majors separated their product from the others by using a "liquid plug" between batches. Never knew if that was true or not. Back in the 70's-80's we used to have Giant stations. Giant had a refinery in New Mexico and trucked their product in., but they're long gone. Any more we usually buy from Sams, Costco, or our grocery store using fuel points and in a pinch QT. Two of our vehicles had/have over 100K miles on them with zero injector or filter problems.

What I will say about QT compared to the competition is that their stores (in particular their restrooms) are very well maintained which I would assume carries over to the management of their fuel systems as well. I never thought of consuming anything more than their coffee and soft drinks though. After I first retired, I worked as a test driver for JLR when JLR was owned by Ford and the women drivers insisted on making pit stops at a QT whenever possible.

 

[LokiWolf]

Good timing. Came here to share that I hit -1 on my octane adjustment while towing for a 4th of July softball tournament. 24 gallons of Costco 93 and the rest was 87. Highest I'd seen was -.6 on 87.

View attachment 36844

Correct, on a stock tune you will never see a -1 on 87. On a good 93 you should see a -1, but not that often.


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[Andy B]

Have a question on a highly debatable subject here, so I’m going to ask my question and then set some ground rules. I don’t care for the nonsense arguments, I mostly like facts over opinions.

Question: Is there any discernible and/or research evidence of less reliability, significant buildup, or performance issues from anything less than top tier gas specifically related to this generation EB?

1. I’m not looking for any debate on brands, strictly top tier vs not.
2. Not looking for anything related to octane or ethanol.
3. The gas I’m referring to is Sam’s Club vs QuikTrip, advertised tier 1 vs not.
4. There is typically 30 cents or more per gallon difference, so worth discussing in my book.
5. Again, specifically looking for any evidence on the gen 2 EB.
6. I likely won’t own this Expy post 80-100k miles, but I want reliability until then.

In a previous life I worked developing an instrument to measure octane in gasoline. The tech involved an optical cell with windows and mirrors to make the measurement (spectroscopy).

I won't name the brand, but when we ran to low end product the optics would eventually get dirty. When we ran the high end product they would get cleaner.

The explanation was that in many cases the high end product is high end because they use a better additive/detergent package in the mix.

I have no idea if the little but of dirt would hurt performance, but I can testify that a good gas with a good additive package will clean the surfaces and a cheap gas will dirty it.

YMMV, literally.

 

[Michael D Morris]

Chemical engineer here, I worked at a major refinery for 36 yrs. It is true that the local terminals sell gasoline/diesel to many different wholesalers and retailers. All fuels are required to meet state specifications. The fuel may come from a local refinery or from a common carrier pipeline that transports fuels all over the country.

Most of the Majors blend gasoline to exceed state specifications for their stations but sell the generic blends to everyone else. Some of the additive packages are added to the fuel at the terminal so the name brand stiff does have different additives than the generic. Typically the brand name products have higher dosages and/or better additives. These include detergents, corrosion inhibitors, stabilizers etc. The big players have substantially better quality control and consistent properties in their products. Top Tier fuels have a higher level of detergents than the state requires.

In some areas, there are "blenders" that purchase off-spec fuel, tank bottoms, and pipeline-interface which has some small amount of diesel mixed with the gasoline. They mix these together to meet state specifications and sell the product locally to off-brand retailers. Some of the bad things that can be in gasoline are high endpoint, corrosivity, gums, high or low vapor pressure, and deposit forming contaminates. States do not have many resources or budgets to sample and test very frequently so, to a great extent, keeping fuel on-spec is pretty much on the honor system. Major players have reputations to uphold and deeper pockets to protect than Joe's Excellent Gasoline Blinding Co.

My recommendation: Buy your gasoline from a major brand name station such as Shell, BP, Exxon, Mobil, ARCO, etc. These will be Top Tier fuels and less likely to cause problems with a new sophisticated engine.

 

[Teasip]

Most stations are top tier. If the pump says detergent additives, generally top tier. Extensive list. https://toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

 

[gtncpa]

Quick Trip and Valero are top tier.


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Valero is in the top 20 of Fortune 500 companies in the US. They are the 2nd largest refinery in the country just behind Marathon. I use them 80% of the time for all my cars included the 3.5 twin turbo Expi. If not them I use BP.

 

[Flexpedition]

I mostly like facts over opinions.

Followed by

4. There is typically 30 cents or more per gallon difference, so worth discussing in my book.

 

[rjdelp7]

On the East Coast gasoline is pumped from the Houston refinery up(north). I think it's called the patriot pipeline. All gas in my area(western NY) comes through that pipe. Do you really think there is a difference in gas, when they all use the same source.

 

[gtncpa]

The main difference is the additives