Towing in Mountains

[kbbowlin]

I've been towing a 7000 lb travel trailer w my 2012 Expedition without issue. I'm in Colorado and can barely get up the mountains. Speed dropped to 20 mph by time reached top. I have Tow Haul engaged.
The big ques is, if the mountain had been higher, would speed drop to 0?? I'm heading to Rocky Mt National Park and really worried I won't make it. Thanks.

 

[montecarlo31]

In theory sure it could get down to zero but with just 7,000 lbs in tow I doubt that would happen.

A few questions:

Were you pulling the grade with the A/C on? If so kill it and if possible keep the windows up.
Are you sure your air filter is clean?
Are tire inflated correctly?


Yeah it sucks towing with a gasser in the mountains but it's doable. I remember going from a 35' V-10 Ford Class A motor home doing the same thing you are to a 45' Diesel Pusher with a C15 (550hp) towing a tahoe up 8% grades at 55 plus mph passing even cars with ease.


If you really want to pull that fast up hill forced induction would be the ultimate altitude compensator.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

I'm a bit disappointed to hear this as I'm shopping for a new travel trailer right now, but not really surprised. I had a hell of a time getting up an 18% grade with my EL with no trailer. btw is the trailer 7,000 lbs loaded or unloaded?

 

[kbbowlin]

In theory sure it could get down to zero but with just 7,000 lbs in tow I doubt that would happen.

A few questions:

Were you pulling the grade with the A/C on? If so kill it and if possible keep the windows up.
Are you sure your air filter is clean?
Are tire inflated correctly?


Yeah it sucks towing with a gasser in the mountains but it's doable. I remember going from a 35' V-10 Ford Class A motor home doing the same thing you are to a 45' Diesel Pusher with a C15 (550hp) towing a tahoe up 8% grades at 55 plus mph passing even cars with ease.


If you really want to pull that fast up hill forced induction would be the ultimate altitude compensator.

Yes, had air on. Had filter and tires checked before leaving. The mt pass was 9k at 6% grade. The one tomorrow is 10k, 6% grade. Concerned about the additional 1k if I was at 20mph before.

 

[kbbowlin]

7k loaded.

 

[montecarlo31]

1,000 feet isn't a whole lot of difference at that altitude. I am guessing you are also a member of the 3.31 gear club? That makes a huge difference, I know some on here say there isn't any but I can tell you when I had loaner expeditions that were 3.31s I could notice a significant difference.

You can kill the air and pick up some more power, I'd be interested in seeing the ECM/TCM data when you are pulling, I am wondering if you are pulling timing or something else.

Also how much frontal surface area does the trailer have? That can be killer no matter what you are pulling with.

 

[46L281GT]

The PCM should kill the AC when WOT at least that is the way it is on many other Ford vehicles.

 

[kbbowlin]

1,000 feet isn't a whole lot of difference at that altitude. I am guessing you are also a member of the 3.31 gear club? That makes a huge difference, I know some on here say there isn't any but I can tell you when I had loaner expeditions that were 3.31s I could notice a significant difference.

You can kill the air and pick up some more power, I'd be interested in seeing the ECM/TCM data when you are pulling, I am wondering if you are pulling timing or something else.

Also how much frontal surface area does the trailer have? That can be killer no matter what you are pulling with.

I hate to be such a girl, but have to admit I have no idea what 3.31 or ECM/TCM is. All I know is ford said the Expy would tow 9200lbs so I purchased a lightweight that when loaded still had 2000lbs to spare. Thought I was being prudent. Thanks for your reply and assistance. Wish me luck tomorrow cause I'm heading north!

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

I hate to be such a girl, but have to admit I have no idea what 3.31 or ECM/TCM is. All I know is ford said the Expy would tow 9200lbs so I purchased a lightweight that when loaded still had 2000lbs to spare. Thought I was being prudent. Thanks for your reply and assistance. Wish me luck tomorrow cause I'm heading north!

3.31 is the gear ratio; it is standard on the regular length Expedition. The EL only comes with 3.73, which is optional on the standard length model. 3.73 is better for towing.

ECM = Engine Control Module
TCM = Transmission Control Module

FWIW, the 9,200 lbs assumes a completely empty truck. Any passengers/cargo in/on the truck should be subtracted from that total.

 

[montecarlo31]

The PCM should kill the AC when WOT at least that is the way it is on many other Ford vehicles.

I don't believe it does on trucks, actually I am sure it didn't on my '13. Cars yes the PCM will kill the a/c, trucks not so much, think about how many trucks spend time at near or full throttle day in and day out. That wouldn't fly with the working man.

All I know is ford said the Expy would tow 9200lbs so I purchased a lightweight that when loaded still had 2000lbs to spare. Thought I was being prudent.

Not to be a dick here but I will probably seem like one by the end of this post since you seem to be making this ford's fault for poor planning and research. The expedition is only rated to tow the difference of it's curb weight less it's maximum GCWR. The GCWR for a 2012 Expedition with the HD tow package is 15,000 lbs. So what you can tow is what your truck weighs fully loaded ready to hook up the trailer less 15,000 lbs. 9,200 lb number if for an XL 2wd with a 150 lb driver or some other crazy bottom end model.

The GCWR also derates based on altitude. So when you hit that 10,000 FT pass your GCWR has dropped 10% or 1,500 lbs (8% on the 9,000 ft pass). Now you are down to 13,500 lbs @ 10,000 ft which I am guessing you are very close to if not over.

13,500 lbs
(7,000) lbs
6,500 lbs of available truck weight.

For me my 2013 King Ranch Expedition 4x4 well optioned was just shy of 6,100 lbs. I throw myself in there at 235 lbs, my wife at 110 lbs, my kids at 38 and 48 lbs plus car seats, the hitch at 45 lbs, and misc stuff 50 lbs, I am at 6,600 lbs give or take.

When giving the tow rating it does not mean you are going to be able to maintain the posted speed limit on a 8% grade, it means you will be able to reasonably run up the grade. I would be that very few tractor trailers were passing you and likewise you were passing very few of them.

Lastly you also are limited on frontal area, are you under 60 sq feet of surface area on your trailer? It's hard to do that but I guess it is possible but most trailers are 8 or 8.5 feet wide and say 9 feet tall taking out the roof a/c and the wheels.

Here is some light reading that should have been done prior to your purchase. Attention to detail is important when you are making decisions, use this as a learning experience to gain from and hopefully grow from.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2012/12_FLRVTT_gde.pdf

 

[kbbowlin]

I don't believe it does on trucks, actually I am sure it didn't on my '13. Cars yes the PCM will kill the a/c, trucks not so much, think about how many trucks spend time at near or full throttle day in and day out. That wouldn't fly with the working man.



Not to be a dick here but I will probably seem like one by the end of this post since you seem to be making this ford's fault for poor planning and research. The expedition is only rated to tow the difference of it's curb weight less it's maximum GCWR. The GCWR for a 2012 Expedition with the HD tow package is 15,000 lbs. So what you can tow is what your truck weighs fully loaded ready to hook up the trailer less 15,000 lbs. 9,200 lb number if for an XL 2wd with a 150 lb driver or some other crazy bottom end model.

The GCWR also derates based on altitude. So when you hit that 10,000 FT pass your GCWR has dropped 10% or 1,500 lbs (8% on the 9,000 ft pass). Now you are down to 13,500 lbs @ 10,000 ft which I am guessing you are very close to if not over.

13,500 lbs
(7,000) lbs
6,500 lbs of available truck weight.

For me my 2013 King Ranch Expedition 4x4 well optioned was just shy of 6,100 lbs. I throw myself in there at 235 lbs, my wife at 110 lbs, my kids at 38 and 48 lbs plus car seats, the hitch at 45 lbs, and misc stuff 50 lbs, I am at 6,600 lbs give or take.

When giving the tow rating it does not mean you are going to be able to maintain the posted speed limit on a 8% grade, it means you will be able to reasonably run up the grade. I would be that very few tractor trailers were passing you and likewise you were passing very few of them.

Lastly you also are limited on frontal area, are you under 60 sq feet of surface area on your trailer? It's hard to do that but I guess it is possible but most trailers are 8 or 8.5 feet wide and say 9 feet tall taking out the roof a/c and the wheels.

Here is some light reading that should have been done prior to your purchase. Attention to detail is important when you are making decisions, use this as a learning experience to gain from and hopefully grow from.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2012/12_FLRVTT_gde.pdf

Yes, I agree, you do sound like a dick. I asked this same question to a fellow camper w a F150 and his reply was , "Put it in Tow Haul and go! Your Expy ha s smart technology and can handle that mountain pass." And yes, it did make it just fine.
Forums are set up for users to assist and support each other, not bully and belittle. Shame on you.

 

[montecarlo31]

Yes, I agree, you do sound like a dick. I asked this same question to a fellow camper w a F150 and his reply was , "Put it in Tow Haul and go! Your Expy ha s smart technology and can handle that mountain pass." And yes, it did make it just fine.
Forums are set up for users to assist and support each other, not bully and belittle. Shame on you.

I've been towing a 7000 lb travel trailer w my 2012 Expedition without issue. I'm in Colorado and can barely get up the mountains. Speed dropped to 20 mph by time reached top. I have Tow Haul engaged.
The big ques is, if the mountain had been higher, would speed drop to 0?? I'm heading to Rocky Mt National Park and really worried I won't make it. Thanks.

So what was it? On one hand you said it was fine and then in your first post you said it wasn't fine and you had tow haul engaged. Are you telling me your expedition defies physics and climbed a steeper grade at higher altitude better with the same setup?

 

[Hit By Thunder]

I used to work in the RV industry. I have been on both sides of the counter. I walked into a dealership with my 2000 F350 diesel dually 4x4 and had a salesman come up and say "you can pull anyting on this lot" I looked at him and said, "do you know my axle ratio"? he said no, and I walked out of the dealership.

Gear ratio in laymans terms is like riding a mountian bike. Ride up hill in 4th gear, lets say thats like having 4:10 gear ratio, easy to do. Now same bike, same hill. Put the bike in 8th gear, thats lets say, 3:73 ratio, ride the same hill. Now its a litlle tougher on the legs and you slow down quicker. Same bike and put it in 12th gear (3:55 ratio)and try to ride up the hill. Your legs are like the engine in your Expedition, you struggle and cant do it.

if you are towing in the hills get a diesel if thats not an option, get the gears for towing, thats not an option, stay out of the hills its that simple. I don't think the other member was being a dyck. He was helping and pointing out the obvious and saving you some more headaches down the road from making more costly mystakes. I took it as he was just helping you out

 

[montecarlo31]

I used to work in the RV industry. I have been on both sides of the counter. I walked into a dealership with my 2000 F350 diesel dually 4x4 and had a salesman come up and say "you can pull anyting on this lot" I looked at him and said, "do you know my axle ratio"? he said no, and I walked out of the dealership.

Gear ratio in laymans terms is like riding a mountian bike. Ride up hill in 4th gear, lets say thats like having 4:10 gear ratio, easy to do. Now same bike, same hill. Put the bike in 8th gear, thats lets say, 3:73 ratio, ride the same hill. Now its a litlle tougher on the legs and you slow down quicker. Same bike and put it in 12th gear (3:55 ratio)and try to ride up the hill. Your legs are like the engine in your Expedition, you struggle and cant do it.

if you are towing in the hills get a diesel if thats not an option, get the gears for towing, thats not an option, stay out of the hills its that simple. I don't think the other member was being a dyck. He was helping and pointing out the obvious and saving you some more headaches down the road from making more costly mystakes. I took it as he was just helping you out

In reality any forced induction engine will work in high altitude situations but turbos are a bit better suited as they can vary boost and tend to have excess boost available where as superchargers are typically there on boost so 6 psi is 6 psi unless there is a change in pulley size.

If he went with a whipple he would be shocked at how much faster he could climb those hills.

 

[Hit By Thunder]

Oh for sure but he was talking his expy and I am sure its stock with no forced induction. Was just keeping it very simple for him just because he said he hated to be such a girl and didn't know what 3:31 meant. But you try and help some people and truth hurts no matter how its told. You did a great job telling him the truth, just cant sugar coat a bad purchase of towing with 3:31's

that 7.3 psd I had towed our 27 foot 5th wheel up 8% grade and hit overdrive while in the hill still gaining speed. Factory tire size was 235 85R16 and factory 4:10's. It was like pulling a tent trailer behing a pickup lol