TSB 23-2250 - 2018-2023 Expedition/Navigator + Other Models - 10R80 Auto Trans + Others - Harsh/Delayed Engagement And/Or Harsh/Delayed Shift

[GixxerJasen]

I've had a couple of neutral out situations, first two were when the engine/transmission were cold. Last one happened fully warmed up on the highway, went to make a pass, changed lanes and pressed on the gas, engine revved, no power and a wrench icon on the screen. Now rapidly slowing down I had to make my way back over in traffic to the shoulder. Soon as I got over it came back to life and wrench went away.

Service Advisor did the remote connection for code history and showed me a ton of "Stuck in park" messages. Got it back yesterday after being at the dealership for a month and a half. Took 3 weeks just for them to clear the backlog of vehicles in front of me for them to look at it, then roughly 3 more weeks for the repair.

Description of service and parts: Burnt C/D/F drum damaged. Replaced C/D/F drum, clutches/steels, overhauled complete transmission and reassembled. Flushed transmission cooler, lines and torque converter.

Thank goodness for warranties, no money out of pocket for four pages of parts. C/D/F Drum is the newer "B" model.

2019 model with 45K miles and a full rebuild, definitely not good.

Platinum Ford in Terrell Texas has taken good care of me for this and my Cam Phasers.

 

[SyndicateZ]

I think its stupid that Ford makes you leave your vehicle for months before they can even look at it so that you stay "in line". If the vehicle is driveable they should just put your info in their system and when they are ready for your vehicle they tell you to drop it off asap. Id rather my vehicle be home than some dealership lot prone to dents and break ins etc especially if I can still drive it.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I think its stupid that Ford makes you leave your vehicle for months before they can even look at it so that you stay "in line". If the vehicle is driveable they should just put your info in their system and when they are ready for your vehicle they tell you to drop it off asap. Id rather my vehicle be home than some dealership lot prone to dents and break ins etc especially if I can still drive it.

It is a process which keeps the warranty (or ESP) time running, closer to expiration - without any extension for the owner while the vehicle is out-of-service).

 

[GixxerJasen]

As long as I can get a decent loaner, I'm not that concerned. They didn't have any loaners initially, but my SA snagged me one as soon as possible. I was happy to rack up miles on their truck instead of mine for the time being. It did suck that it was an XLT and I missed the features of my limited. Also, I did get used to that big screen on the new model, and going back to the 2019 screen was a smidge difficult, but I'll deal with it.

 

[SyndicateZ]

It is a process which keeps the warranty (or ESP) time running, closer to expiration - without any extension for the owner while the vehicle is out-of-service).

Now this makes sense and overlooked that. Thanks

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

I just finished reading 23-2250 front to back for the first time. OMG. And you all know why I read it. My '20 expedition is one long haul away from crossing the 50K mark and it slams and bangs occasionally. Worse yet, I have a '22 F150 hybrid that is covered by the TSB as well. This transmission TSB has me so paranoid that I find myself analyzing every single shift in the '22...just waiting for something other than the perfect shifts that it has so far delivered.

I'm a veteran of too many Ford quality campaigns for 23 years prior to my grateful departure from the company in 2007. This one scares me, a lot. My contemporaries and I would have never considered charging dealer service departments with performing such a series of complex and invasive Transmission repairs... on potentially millions of vehicles. It would seem that swap outs with new transmissions and recycling the old ones through the rebuild system to be sold as out of warranty replacements, would have been the preferred alternative. Step 2 would have been persecuting everyone involved on the 10 speed development team to ensure that the disease didn't spread through the organization and produce more such issues.

The chances that this complex TSB can be consistently implemented by the nationwide dealer service organizations isn't just remote, it's non existent. Successful implementations will be the exception. I've visited about 0 dealership service departments that had so much as one technician capable of performing this service without causing more collateral damage than they were fixing.

So, what to do? In all honesty it comes down to: A) Bite the bullet and buy a '24 now. B) Wait until the transmission moves from being uncomfortable to non-functioning and buy a new transmission and install it myself.

As a wild card, has anyone had this service performed satisfactorily within 100 miles of Charlotte, NC? If so, what dealership, what technician?

 

[Hellwig]

I just finished reading 23-2250 front to back for the first time. OMG. And you all know why I read it. My '20 expedition is one long haul away from crossing the 50K mark and it slams and bangs occasionally. Worse yet, I have a '22 F150 hybrid that is covered by the TSB as well. This transmission TSB has me so paranoid that I find myself analyzing every single shift in the '22...just waiting for something other than the perfect shifts that it has so far delivered.

I'm a veteran of too many Ford quality campaigns for 23 years prior to my grateful departure from the company in 2007. This one scares me, a lot. My contemporaries and I would have never considered charging dealer service departments with performing such a series of complex and invasive Transmission repairs... on potentially millions of vehicles. It would seem that swap outs with new transmissions and recycling the old ones through the rebuild system to be sold as out of warranty replacements, would have been the preferred alternative. Step 2 would have been persecuting everyone involved on the 10 speed development team to ensure that the disease didn't spread through the organization and produce more such issues.

The chances that this complex TSB can be consistently implemented by the nationwide dealer service organizations isn't just remote, it's non existent. Successful implementations will be the exception. I've visited about 0 dealership service departments that had so much as one technician capable of performing this service without causing more collateral damage than they were fixing.

So, what to do? In all honesty it comes down to: A) Bite the bullet and buy a '24 now. B) Wait until the transmission moves from being uncomfortable to non-functioning and buy a new transmission and install it myself.

As a wild card, has anyone had this service performed satisfactorily within 100 miles of Charlotte, NC? If so, what dealership, what technician?

My person experience related to your option A:

I've felt delayed downshift from gear 5 to 3 and 4 to 3 frequently, starting from the very first month after my purchasing a 2024 model year Expedition. It is not very serious, though. It's annoying, but according to my Youtube research, this wouldn't harm the transmission anyway. So I don't even bring vehicle to dealership for inspection yet.

 

[Benztech]

Picked up my wife's Expy today. The dealer did a valve body overhaul and CDF drum. No friction plates or steels were needed. Shifting is much better but it's only been a few miles so far.

 

[JimmyM]

I think I experienced my first real "klunk" braking to a stop (firmly, not hard, not soft). It was a VERY obvious screwed up downshift. Hard "klunk". It's going in for an oil change in 150 miles. So I'll bring it up then. Oh well. Welcome me to your ranks.

 

[TX-EXPMAX]

I recently had TSB 24-2101 done on my 2019 (which I'm assuming superseded the 24-2046) for shudder, delayed upshifting and general clunky when shifting in the lower gears. Night and day difference after having this done, but last week I started it up, took up and got the dreaded wrench. The ford app shows Powertrain Control Fault, but of course no code. I cycled the key and it never came back on. Shifting seemed to have changed a bit and I had a few hiccups since this happening. I've driven about 2,000 miles since the work was done, so would expect the relearning to have been completed. Yesterday, it was shifting 1-3-4-5-6 and then may skip from there depending on speed and throttle. Before this occuring, it generally used to be 1-3-5-7 and vary according to throttle and speed. I spoke to the dealer and they advised it could have been a hiccup since the light went off, but concerned something is broken again. Has anyone experienced this post repair? Suggestions?

 

[Jettix2]

My 19’ had the CDF drum replaced (and reflash, valve body, and whatever else they did under the TSB) under warranty back in October 2023 with about 42k on the clock. It’s at 55k now and we’ve recently had a couple of real harsh and a couple of delayed shifts. Trans 100% needs to be rebuilt or replaced again, it goes to the dealer in 2 weeks and I’m not happy.

To add insult to injury, we have a hesitation/surging issue as well that they need to address. Last Expy we had needed VCT solenoid and cam phasers, wondering if this is the case on this one too.

Man I love the vehicle, but I’m glad I’ve got the ESP warranty…..

 

[Dice Roll]

My trans has started doing a weird thing like it burps itself out of gear. Then picks up and goes again. Probably five times so far.

Even weirder, it only happens leaving baseball games for my kid! I first thought it was a bad angle leaving this one park and maybe mine really is a quart low, but I couldn’t convince the dealer to check it last time in for service.

Then it did it again leaving a different park. Two games there and the road is level. Wondering if the time spent at the games are similar enough that it’s a thermal thing? Hadn’t done it anytime else. 32k on the clock now.

Good thing his season is over now.

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

The variety of issues with these transmissions is astounding. My '20 Expedition, when conditions are just right, on a 10-7, 9-7, 8-7 downshift will bang so hard, I reflexively look in the rear view mirror to see if parts are flying. I can't reliably repeat the condition; but, it seems to happen in heavy traffic in construction zones on the highway, so, traveling at 50-60 mph and engaging in a medium slow, partial accelerator press. Lighter and heavier accelerator presses will avoid the problem. I'm getting sensitive enough to it, that I can almost predict it and I try to avoid by changing accelerator pressures, lighter or heavier. I had it happen once on a 300 mile trip this weekend with Boy Scouts on board. One of the scouts thought we had been hit by another vehicle....It's that hard.

 

[Hellwig]

The variety of issues with these transmissions is astounding. My '20 Expedition, when conditions are just right, on a 10-7, 9-7, 8-7 downshift will bang so hard, I reflexively look in the rear view mirror to see if parts are flying. I can't reliably repeat the condition; but, it seems to happen in heavy traffic in construction zones on the highway, so, traveling at 50-60 mph and engaging in a medium slow, partial accelerator press. Lighter and heavier accelerator presses will avoid the problem. I'm getting sensitive enough to it, that I can almost predict it and I try to avoid by changing accelerator pressures, lighter or heavier. I had it happen once on a 300 mile trip this weekend with Boy Scouts on board. One of the scouts thought we had been hit by another vehicle....It's that hard.

My 2024 has same behavior when it downshifts from 4 to 3 or 5 to 3. It looks a software problem to me.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

my 2019 has exhibited a weirdness in shifting just a few times. I'm moving along at 40 or 50 MPH, not sure what gear, maybe up a grade, probably heavily loaded and/or towing, and I step on the gas to accelerate to pass, and instead of downshifting and accelerating, it acts like its in neutral and revs up until it bounces off the rev limiter, I let off on the gas, and it klunks rather harshly into a gear. I've not tried to force it to reproduce the problem, but its occurred so rarely that when I asked a shop about it, they spent an hour and couldn't see anything wrong.

 

[LegalBrief]

My 2024 has same behavior when it downshifts from 4 to 3 or 5 to 3. It looks a software problem to me.

@Hellwig take it in, you’re still under warranty and I’d assume relatively low mileage, they will fix it…. Mine has been perfect ever since

 

[GregTu]

@Hellwig take it in, you’re still under warranty and I’d assume relatively low mileage, they will fix it…. Mine has been perfect ever since

FYI: ‘24 Platinum. Same problem. Took to my dealer. Said no problem found. Service writer said “it is a sports transmission and with 10 gears shifting can be quick and aggressive“. We happen to own a ‘23 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 (yea, I know, a ridiculously, long name) with PDK. It shifts much faster and is so smooth it’s imperceivable except for engine note. Its MSRP is similar to the Expedition. Both 400 HP. I guess it’s time to find another dealer.

 

[Hellwig]

FYI: ‘24 Platinum. Same problem. Took to my dealer. Said no problem found. Service writer said “it is a sports transmission and with 10 gears shifting can be quick and aggressive“. We happen to own a ‘23 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 (yea, I know, a ridiculously, long name) with PDK. It shifts much faster and is so smooth it’s imperceivable except for engine note. Its MSRP is similar to the Expedition. Both 400 HP. I guess it’s time to find another dealer.

Most likely dealerships wouldn't do anything until they see DTC code(s). By the way, if your case is similar to mine, it's likely a TCM programing and/or a valve body problem.

 

[bocabimmer]

I've got my appointment for 8/20 for my transmission. Shifts are getting so hard I sometimes think I just got rear-ended. Shifting into gear makes such a loud bang sometimes it's embarrassing. Finally now it's doing the neutral out thing where it loses gear, revs the engine, and sounds like there's grinding glass/marbles inside the transmission tunnel. Briefly got the transmission error on screen, and I'm reading P07E6 in Forscan.

I love my Expedition but I will never, ever own one of these without a warranty or ESP on it.

 

[TX-EXPMAX]

I recently had TSB 24-2101 done on my 2019 (which I'm assuming superseded the 24-2046) for shudder, delayed upshifting and general clunky when shifting in the lower gears. Night and day difference after having this done, but last week I started it up, took up and got the dreaded wrench. The ford app shows Powertrain Control Fault, but of course no code. I cycled the key and it never came back on. Shifting seemed to have changed a bit and I had a few hiccups since this happening. I've driven about 2,000 miles since the work was done, so would expect the relearning to have been completed. Yesterday, it was shifting 1-3-4-5-6 and then may skip from there depending on speed and throttle. Before this occuring, it generally used to be 1-3-5-7 and vary according to throttle and speed. I spoke to the dealer and they advised it could have been a hiccup since the light went off, but concerned something is broken again. Has anyone experienced this post repair? Suggestions?

Update - The check engine light ended up being a bad O2 sensor. They replaced it and the weird shifting has gone away and things seem to be back to normal. I guess there's a chance the engine wasn't running correctly and maybe had the transmission shifting differently to account for that? Not sure, but all seems well for now so I'll leave it alone.