Updated: FIXED (?) New CALIPER, rotors and pads. Still HOT!!!

[JExpedition07]

Dats right...mmmm mmmmm.....
View attachment 30711

I needed that chuckle this morning

 

[TobyU]

Uneven wear on the Old Pad which probably was the outside pad and you mentioned on the new pad outside pad wasn't evenly worn indicates either something is caught sideways and not lined up or the caliper is not free to slide on both pins. Typically if a piston is sticking you will have inside pad wear and if the caliper is not sliding on the pins you'll have outside pad wear.
Inner and outer pads are often different and often only wear indicators on one so always make sure you assemble and the same way the old ones came off.

 

[Expedition007]

We had troubles like this on an F150. I believe it turned out to be that the pads were ever so slightly different. All four at a quick glance appeared the same. Two of one style were installed on the left, the remaining were installed on the right. This configuration was making the caliper bind on the slides when the brakes were applied and not allowing the outboard pad to release from the rotor. After a stop or two once everything gets hot it would grab so hard you couldn’t turn the wheel by hand. We were about to change calipers also. I happened to get out my phone and google the problem. I ran across some TSB about the problem and took a closer look at brake pads... problem solved.

 

[Rs37037]

Just went thru this with my 07. Replace brake line...

 

[D-Cole]

x 2 on the brake line. This happened on my 03 and 09 expys. You can find a lot of similar stories on here about the front soft lines.

 

[Plati]

x 2 on the brake line. This happened on my 03 and 09 expys. You can find a lot of similar stories on here about the front soft lines.

what happens with the brake line? I assume this is the final flexible rubber line?

I've heard of them rupturing & leaking , then you lose brakes.

I've heard of them collapsing inside. You hit brakes and one wheel is delayed due to collapse so you pull to the opposite side then recover back to straight. I think I have that now on my 2003.

Is another failure mode where the caliper is locked ON somewhat?
is that where it collapses inside, you step on brakes and they work fine but fluid doesn't flow easily back out when you let off the pedal so brakes stay on too long. That will only be a temporary situation, right. It will flow back out after you let off pedal?

thanks

 

[TobyU]

what happens with the brake line? I assume this is the final flexible rubber line?

I've heard of them rupturing & leaking , then you lose brakes.

I've heard of them collapsing inside. You hit brakes and one wheel is delayed due to collapse so you pull to the opposite side then recover back to straight. I think I have that now on my 2003.

Is another failure mode where the caliper is locked ON somewhat?
is that where it collapses inside, you step on brakes and they work fine but fluid doesn't flow easily back out when you let off the pedal so brakes stay on too long. That will only be a temporary situation, right. It will flow back out after you let off pedal?

thanks

The internal failure is more common than external leaks. And yes after a few seconds it will release the pressure and the wheel will turn probably as good as the other one but every time you hit the wheel it sticks way too long and that will get excessively hot. It will also usually pull to that side.
One of the things you should check for anytime you have a hot wheel or uneven wear or pulling when you hit the brakes. You just need someone to push the pedal while you apply pressure to rotate the wheel. It should go back to taking the same amount of pressure to make the wheel turn as soon as they let off the brake pedal as it did before they pressed it. If there is any delay over like a quarter second then there's a problem.

 

[richs fishes]

I'd also vote for the brake hose. Collapses internally preventing the caliper from engaging correctly and more importantly preventing it from releasing. I'd bet if you jacked the truck up you'd find the wheels spin freely. Have someone engage the brakes and I'd bet the wheels wont move. Release the brake and you should find 3 wheels spin freely again but you'll likely find one that wont spin for at least a second or two after the brake has been released. Thats what I encountered on my new to me expedition just a few weeks ago and I ended up doing pads, rotors, calipers and hoses at all 4 corners for peace of mind. Pay attention to the orientation of the hoses before you remove them! Otherwise you'll put it together and find the rear hoses rubbing the inside of the wheels and have to start all over!....or so I've heard.

 

[rjdelp7]

File or grind the metal(burrs) on the pads, where they slide. They should fit loose, with no resistance and a tiny bit of slop. I had set of (cheap ceramic) pads so tight, I couldn't barley get them on. Buy better quality pads. I like Wagner products.

 

[Richard Mickelson]

Your problem is the brake hose!! Change out both front hoses while you are at it. They do collapse and cause the problem that you are having. The same thing happen to my Expedition about a year ago! The hose collapses inside so the brake fluid is slow to return to the master cylinder causing the brake shoes to drag and wear out premature. Easy Fix.

 

[ANGEL TORES]

Had also had front break issue and noticed it while on a road trip from New Jersey to Florida towing a camper. I crawled back home and by the grace of God we made it home safe. I went with the Power Stop Heavy Towing Kit which included new powder coated red calipers, cross drilled rotors and their extreme brake pads. That was in March 2019 and I am very happy with performance. I only did to the front because they are expensive. When the rears start giving problems I will get the same one for the rear set. Hope this helps, good luck

 

[2010ELExpy4x4]

The pads are different, I had the same issue when I changed ours for the first time.

 

[2008Limited]

Having a similar issue with my 2008 Limited and am curious if a new rubber brake line resolved your problem. My drivers side front caliper started to lock up/drag on a recent family trip to the beach 5 hours away from home. It was an intermittent issue, so we were able to make it back home without problem and I tackled the repair last weekend. Given it's intermittent behavior I tried all the basic stuff first, clean slides, check fluid etc. For peace of mind new FoMoCo parts were installed - as mentioned prior, braking is not something I go cheap on.

Thus far I have replaced the Caliper, Pads and Rotor on the drivers front. I was told by other mechanic friends/Ford truck owners - if 1 side goes be prepared for the other to follow - so I have passenger parts in the garage waiting to be installed. I am trying to pinpoint this issue before doing anything on the passenger side that could potentially make new/additional problems. The intermittent hanging/sticking of the caliper again presented itself over the weekend. I have ordered a new hose to try that next.

Given most of my Ford Mechanical knowledge is around Mustangs/Thunderbird Super Coupes - is there anything else I should consider at this time?

Thanks!

-Tim

 

[TobyU]

I go pretty cheap on everything but if you are one that doesn't like to skimp then you really shouldn't be doing just one side of your brakes. Most will recommend to always replace front pads left and right at the same time and many will also recommend always turning both rotors or replacing both rotors at the same time. Some will go even further and this is where I start to disagree with the mechanics who want to rebuild every car to 2017 standards. There's no reason you have to replace both calipers when only one is sticking or has a cracked piston as the plastic ones often do but I can see someone's concern that if one is sticking now it probably won't be but a year or two until the other one might be sticking. This is not always true because often it's the right wheel that messes up first because it goes through far more puddles and water and salt and nasty stuff on the right side of the road then left wheel does.
I never replace any brake hose until it is damaged or causing the caliper to hang up and stick. Most mechanics Pollo this idea also but there are lots of shops that would recommend you replace the hose when you replace the caliper. They do love replacing parts and making that money.
It's easy enough to tell if one is hanging by spinning the tire and having someone push the brake and seeing if it releases and you can turn the wheel soon as they let the pedal come up. If it is a hose sticking it will do it every time. If it is a caliper sticking you can put the wrench on the bleeder screw and when you release the bleeder screw it will release the pressure instantly. When it is the hose it takes a couple seconds for the pressure to subside and it will turn freely by hand pressure.
Hoses are about the least frequent thing to go out or fail. Of all the cars I've owned in my life and all the repairs I've done, I replace brake pads and shoes more than anything else, rotors number two, calipers and brake lines come in as a tie, behind that is the occasional wheel cylinder that needs rebuilt or replaced and then way behind that in last place for needing replaced would be the brake hose. Brake hose has a master cylinders are about a tie in the past 10 years. If you go back about 20 years to 25 years mattress owners didn't last as long I had replaced far more of those than brake hoses. I have rarely seen vehicles that were less than 18 to 20 years old that needed brake hoses replaced. Just not that, no problem. One thing you always want to make sure you don't let the caliper fall or hang from the brake hose. This is a quick way to shorten its life.

 

[2008Limited]

I go pretty cheap on everything but if you are one that doesn't like to skimp then you really shouldn't be doing just one side of your brakes. Most will recommend to always replace front pads left and right at the same time and many will also recommend always turning both rotors or replacing both rotors at the same time. Some will go even further and this is where I start to disagree with the mechanics who want to rebuild every car to 2017 standards. There's no reason you have to replace both calipers when only one is sticking or has a cracked piston as the plastic ones often do but I can see someone's concern that if one is sticking now it probably won't be but a year or two until the other one might be sticking. This is not always true because often it's the right wheel that messes up first because it goes through far more puddles and water and salt and nasty stuff on the right side of the road then left wheel does.
I never replace any brake hose until it is damaged or causing the caliper to hang up and stick. Most mechanics Pollo this idea also but there are lots of shops that would recommend you replace the hose when you replace the caliper. They do love replacing parts and making that money.
It's easy enough to tell if one is hanging by spinning the tire and having someone push the brake and seeing if it releases and you can turn the wheel soon as they let the pedal come up. If it is a hose sticking it will do it every time. If it is a caliper sticking you can put the wrench on the bleeder screw and when you release the bleeder screw it will release the pressure instantly. When it is the hose it takes a couple seconds for the pressure to subside and it will turn freely by hand pressure.
Hoses are about the least frequent thing to go out or fail. Of all the cars I've owned in my life and all the repairs I've done, I replace brake pads and shoes more than anything else, rotors number two, calipers and brake lines come in as a tie, behind that is the occasional wheel cylinder that needs rebuilt or replaced and then way behind that in last place for needing replaced would be the brake hose. Brake hose has a master cylinders are about a tie in the past 10 years. If you go back about 20 years to 25 years mattress owners didn't last as long I had replaced far more of those than brake hoses. I have rarely seen vehicles that were less than 18 to 20 years old that needed brake hoses replaced. Just not that, no problem. One thing you always want to make sure you don't let the caliper fall or hang from the brake hose. This is a quick way to shorten its life.

As mentioned above - only 1 side is completed at this point to resolve the issue at hand before potentially making any additional problems or completing standard maintenance. It's not a matter of "skimping" or being cheap but rather addressing the problem first. I've never had a caliper or brake hose fail and as mentioned this is my first Ford SUV/Truck. If you are looking for common problems with Mustangs or Super Charged Thunderbird SC's I could tell you those far better than any repair manual of TSB. Also the reason I posted here - common issues are usually discussed on the forums by enthusiasts.

I also have worked on multiple cars over 20 years, I've built motors, transmissions, differentials... changed brakes more times than I can count. I do not lack knowledge or ability to make the repairs. Also this is the first time I have had a caliper continue to intermittently hang up.

At time of replacement the brake hose was disconnected prior to the caliper being removed, so no hanging weight was applied to the hose. The proper bleeding process was preformed and the wheel spun freely prior to reassembly. One week later it is now back to occasionally hanging up. For instance - hung Saturday - today it did not.

Even though you suggest the brake hose to be the least expected area to fail, others mentioned above it's rather common to fail on Expeditions/F150s.

-Tim

 

[TobyU]

As mentioned above - only 1 side is completed at this point to resolve the issue at hand before potentially making any additional problems or completing standard maintenance. It's not a matter of "skimping" or being cheap but rather addressing the problem first. I've never had a caliper or brake hose fail and as mentioned this is my first Ford SUV/Truck. If you are looking for common problems with Mustangs or Super Charged Thunderbird SC's I could tell you those far better than any repair manual of TSB. Also the reason I posted here - common issues are usually discussed on the forums by enthusiasts.

I also have worked on multiple cars over 20 years, I've built motors, transmissions, differentials... changed brakes more times than I can count. I do not lack knowledge or ability to make the repairs. Also this is the first time I have had a caliper continue to intermittently hang up.

At time of replacement the brake hose was disconnected prior to the caliper being removed, so no hanging weight was applied to the hose. The proper bleeding process was preformed and the wheel spun freely prior to reassembly. One week later it is now back to occasionally hanging up. For instance - hung Saturday - today it did not.

Even though you suggest the brake hose to be the least expected area to fail, others mentioned above it's rather common to fail on Expeditions/F150s.

-Tim

Just going from my experiences like yours with calipers. Mine are similar. I have had more than one hang up but they don't stick or fail all that often. It is more commonly the slider pins than the actual caliper piston or pistons.
It can all be heat-related too. It's less likely for a brake hose to be heat-related but it is possible. Calipers on the other hand can get warm and things start to expand and they can start to hang up.
I also always gauge how free the caliper piston is when I push them in using my C-clamp. Some people use a hydraulic depressor or ratcheting mechanism and they don't get any feedback when they push them in. When I use the C-clamp I can tell exactly what they want is free like a new one or really stiff.
All kinds of problems are common on forums because this is where we all end up for the specific vehicles but I can say that I owned a 97 E350 for over 10 years, an 01 Excursion for over 10 years, a 2000 Expedition for 7 years, a 90 Ford F150 for about 10 years, a good deal of town cars from 89, 92, 96, 99, 98... and only one of any of those ever needed a brake hose replaced because of an internal collapse that was making the caliper stick.
My 93 Z71 pickup truck on the other hand but I bought back in 2010, needed a brake hose and the first year I had it.
On the other vehicles I had to rebuild the right rear caliper on the E350 Super Duty because it was leaking, replaced one front and one rear caliper on the 2001 Excursion, have yet to replace a caliper on the 2000 Expedition but have been through two to three sets of pads on the front and at least one on the rear, very few if any calipers on any of the Town Cars but have to clean up the pens and free them up often. The worst Fords were those old Tauruses rear calipers. Those pins would rust in the caliper bracket and we're sometimes impossible to remove and even hard to drill out. Easier to just replace the whole thing.
I have seen a couple of brake hoses get a bubble on the outside but not yet leak. You know you're on borrowed time then. I don't replace them unless they are cracked up and looking deteriorated or if I find they have an internal collapse and holding pressure.

I guess on an intermittent thing I would take the wheel off and make sure the caliper was free enough that it will move with just hand pressure on it slider pins and then I would push the pistons back in with a C-clamp and make sure they are free. I often lift the boot up with a small screwdriver and squirt WD-40 or here lately I've been using Lucas chain lube around the piston dust cover to help keep things lubed in there.
Then if it keeps doing it after I know the caliper is nice and free I would replace the hose. They usually less than $15 and not too bad to replace.

 

[2008Limited]

As much as I didn't believe, the brake hose resolved the problem. The truck now brakes as it should and the caliper does not stick.

-Tim

 

[D-Cole]

I had front calipers stick on both my 2003 and 2003 Expys. On the 2003 I originally just replaced the caliper and it didn't fix the issue until I researched it more on here and also replaced both hoses. When the same thing happened on the 2009, I did the hoses as well. Everything works great now.

The dusting was noticed before I noticed them being hot, but could not tell any difference in driving them.

 

[Tr8rNines]

I had the same issue on what I thought was the front driver side. But after trying to replace that side brake hose with zero luck, due to Advance giving me the PASSENGER side hose, I took it to my mechanic. He found it was the passenger hose that was bad and he put it on for me for $50. However, the new caliper Advance sold me for the passenger side, was actually for the DRIVER side! (I have come to the conclusion that to be considered for employment at Advance Auto, you can not know your left from your right) The caliper was seized, the passenger pads destroyed, and the rotor was obliterated. At least Advance did give me all new parts for free. Moral of the story: When installing new calipers, yourself, be sure they give you the correct one(s) for the side(s) you're working on, and be SURE the bleeder valve is at the TOP of the caliper. If not, you are wrong, and the brakes can't be bled.

 

[1955moose]

These SUVs seem to have a problem with brake hoses imploding. Pretty rare in the industry, but apparently not so much on F150's/Expeditions. I've always replaced or rebuilt both calipers, not one. Fluids a strange thing, it seems to travel the path of least resistance, at least it will challenge your expertise, and drive you nuts, if you try to cheat. Had a friend that had a Datsun pickup way back when. He'd brought to two mechanics for a weird rear drum brake lockup. They couldn't fix it. I told him Rick, I'm going to change both cylinders, rough up new shoes and cut drums. His problem went away. These SUVs have a very sophisticated brake system that can be daunting to get perfect. Do the hoses and both calipers/pads, and go from there. Let us know your progress.

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