What’s with the common misconception on foreign cars?

[Michael Shepherd]

Can't speak to the older Range Rovers, but during our week in San Diego for the 4th of July, rented a 2019 Range Rover Sport from Hertz, I felt the car's interior was much, much better than our 2017 Ltd. Next to no plastic, leather everywhere including on top of the dash, great heated/cooled seats/steering wheel, and aside from the engine shutoff at traffic lights and my lack of understanding for how to reliably shift into reverse with the electronic gear shifter, I was really impressed with the Rover.

 

[JExpedition07]

Can't speak to the older Range Rovers, but during our week in San Diego for the 4th of July, rented a 2019 Range Rover Sport from Hertz, I felt the car's interior was much, much better than our 2017 Ltd. Next to no plastic, leather everywhere including on top of the dash, great heated/cooled seats/steering wheel, and aside from the engine shutoff at traffic lights and my lack of understanding for how to reliably shift into reverse with the electronic gear shifter, I was really impressed with the Rover.

Then again we should be comparing that 2019 Rover with the 2019 Navigator. I’ll go on a limb again and say it...the Navigator is leaps and bounds nicer. Not even a contest in my book, the Lincoln has more power, features, capacities than the Rover. I know most of you will think the Rover is nicer. I guess most people like Plain Jane. I like two tones, wood grains, not black plastic and leather like everyone else has.

 

[JExpedition07]

That ‘09 Rover had no premium materials imo, it squeaked and everything was plastic as with most vehicles from the era. It hasn’t aged well. Maybe they’ve upped their game since, but my Expedition felt like a nicer truck in and out.

 

[cmiles97]

Toby, you should look at 4runners. They haven't done a redesign in 10 years. One of the reviewer complaints. Yet 18 was a record sales year for them. Why? Folks want the simple durability & reliability from their basic proven design.

If you go with a high end luxury vehicle experts say to lease them. They have many very expensive problems after 100K miles.

One reviewer was explaining why some Japanese car manufactures always rate highly in reliability is that the workers and management work together vs USA where they hate each other.

OP: Did you check the Land Rover for bubbling paint?

 

[Adieu]

Then again we should be comparing that 2019 Rover with the 2019 Navigator. I’ll go on a limb again and say it...the Navigator is leaps and bounds nicer. Not even a contest in my book, the Lincoln has more power, features, capacities than the Rover. I know most of you will think the Rover is nicer. I guess most people like Plain Jane. I like two tones, wood grains, not black plastic and leather like everyone else has.

View attachment 31676
View attachment 31677

Too busy vs too plain

They're both pretty disappointing

 

[chuck s]

Misconception? Nonsense.

And then there are the 10 most-reliable vehicles, which, according to CR, include five Toyota, with three Prius models, and two vehicles from Lexus, Toyota’s luxury brand:

1. Lexus GS
2. Toyota Prius C
3. Toyota Prius Prime
4. Mazda MX-5 Miata
5. Toyota Corolla
6. Lexus NX
7. Toyota Prius
8. Honda Fit
9. Kia Sedona
10. Toyota Highlander

-- Chuck

 

[Muddy Bean]

I’m 37 years old... and in that time frame I have owned in order from first vehicle to most recent vehicle:

1. Chevy Celebrity
2. Ford Taurus
3. Toyota Corolla
4. Saturn SL1
5. Pontiac Bonneville
6. Pontiac Bonneville
7. Buick LeSabre
8. Saturn SL2
9. Nissan Sentra Spec V
10. Toyota Pickup
11. Buick LeSabre
12. Toyota Tercel
13. Chevy Astro
14. Toyota Camry
15. Toyota Land Cruiser 100 series
16. 2015 Ford Expedition EL Ecoboost

And I can say without a doubt, from first hand experience, it’s not a misconception. My Toyota’s were better quality vehicles. From the thud of the shutting door, to the lack of interior rattles, to just plain old reliability there is still no contest. Here’s my honest assessment:

Ford/GM/Dodge all very comfortable vehicles for the most part. My Buick’s were plush and nice. Lots of low end grunt from our big V6 and V8 engines. Parts are cheap and plentiful even in the remotest towns I can find parts for most vehicles. I can drive my expedition for 10 hours and still not be physically worn out. Seats support, little luxuries like well place cup holders, high fidelity sound systems, and power running boards are just nice to have and I enjoy them.

Toyota, Honda, Acura, Subaru:
My mom owned brand new Subaru’s (forester) and dad owned brand new Honda Odyssey minivan. One of my best friends owned several Acura’s so I’ve driven them a lot too. Most vehicles in these manufacturers lineups are just not as plush or comfy. My Camry had a soft and quiet ride but the seats would destroy my back in two hours. Like badly. My Land Cruiser even was uncomfortable on long road trips believe it or not. That truck just wasn’t as nice of a highway cruiser as my expedition. But I never had a single issue with it in 300,000 miles. Nor my camry which I drove to 300,000 miles. Not my toyota pickup or my Tercel. My dad drove his van well past 300,000 miles with no issues. Same with the Acura 2.5tl. Mom sold her Subaru so can attest to that one. But that car was horribly uncomfortable with a very stiff ride. I hated that thing.

But in spite of comfort issues, plain vanilla driving experiences that were neither exciting nor satisfying, my foreign cars and trucks just worked every single day. No drama. No issues. I fed them Mobil 1 Extended Performance once every 20,000 miles or so and they just ticked along until I sold them. I really miss that boring reliability.

I drive a LOT of miles every year. My 2015 EL has 136,000 miles so far. My expedition has already had a bunch of annoying ongoing issues. It eats spark plugs for breakfast lunch and dinner with a few snacks in between. I’ve already blown a turbo and had it replaced. I’ve had two coolant leaks at both turbos. I’ve had the throttle body fail completely on me and strand me twice on the road before getting it replaced, my heated and cooled seats quit working within months of me buying the truck, and I had to drill a hole in my intercooler to stop the multiple cylinder misfires on a road trip out west last year. Leaking struts early on in the trucks life had to be replaced, and now I’m getting aluminum corrosion on my lift gate. I just never ever experienced this level of issues with any of my “foreign” vehicles even though they had twice the mileage my Expedition does. Do I love my Ford? Yep. Is it really the biggest, most comfortable and quiet highway cruiser? Yep. Would I trade it for a Lexus LX570? Thinking about it.




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[jeff kushner]

MB's about right for his time period and the "old guys" nailed it with mentioning Cheap Japanese Junk first shipping in the US in the early/mid 60's. Datsun, Subaru had that minicar that 3 teens could lift and set on the Community floating raft before cutting the raft loose on the Magothy river(according the rumors at the time). Heck, BRITISH crap with their vertical crank seams & Lucas;Lord of Darkness was better than anything coming from Asia.

The prob the US firms had was corporate laziness that came from having built the HP muscle cars fly off the lots only to see the inception of the EPA, gas lines & the flood of untaxed cars from Asia(no tax was setup b/c they had shipped no amount of cars at the time)they sat and waited while first Japan, then Korea began to eat their lunch. By the time the meal was over in the late 80's, the US firms were starving and the Asian firms fat & happy.

Today....I don't generalize by manufacturer....too much interfacing as Toby pointed out I believe. I have a '02 SLK(supercharged w/ oversize crank pulley) with 200K on it.....NOTHING had ever broke.....so last winter, I spent a few dollars and had the suspension and all 3 liquid-filled motor mounts replaced...total around 2400 bucks invested.

I also remember very well buying an new '80 Chevette b/c it was the cheapest American car. It had over 365K when sold....Original clutch, tranny & engine. 6-7 timing belts at 31 dollars and 22 minutes each, 2 starters(pita location), 1 water pump....I did all my own work back then so it prob cost less then I just sunk into my little slk for elective work!

To me, quality looks nice and lasts.....if a car....which is bought solely for transportation isn't reliable and things inside break too? No, that's isn't quality no matter how much you wast...er, spent on it! Quality begins with those two basics.....after that, you can dress it up but if it can't do the 1st two.....to me it's junk b/c it's no longer usable.

My slk is kept clean, as are all my bikes but my truck is just that, a truck. I make sure all my maintenance stuff is done and since I don't chose to live or drive in a sh*thole, I keep the inside clean and neat.....the rest is purely subjective as was also mentioned......

jeff

 

[JExpedition07]

I’m aware Toyota is a bar in reliability, I was looking at Sequoia trucks before I bought my Expedition. They hold their value well, however I did not like the interior and the shorter wheelbase. The 5.7 iForce was a solid performer although it drinks more gas than my 5.4 Triton I could live with it regardless. It was more the styling/ size that put me off.

However I still hold it’s a misconception. Nissan and reliability should not be mentioned in the same sentence. Nissan, VW, Fiat, Acura are all rock bottom on reliability from multiple credible sources and well behind domestics (Ford, GM). You can count modern day Mercedes in that pile too. The mentioned manufacturers all have lousy automatics for starters.

 

[Going_Going_Gone]

Since we were married, a long time ago, my wife and I have owned two Chevys, a Buick, two Oldsmobiles, two Maximas, one '91 Toyota PU, one Mazda CX9, one Lincoln MKX, and seven Fords: one Taurus SHO, one Taurus SEL, one full-sized Bronco, 3 full-sized 4X4 pickups (one a first-year 6.0 diesel), and now our Expedition Max. Just based on our ownership experience, ranking them by brand from the most problems/vehicle to least I would say: either Chevy, Toyota, 2001 Maxima, '80 Buick, 2011 Lincoln, 1990 Maxima, 2007 Mazda, and the Fords, with the exception of our 1999 Taurus, in total averaged the least number of problems/vehicle. In terms of out-of-pocket expenses, the Toyota was by the costliest to maintain: after the warranty period, more parts failed, some repeatedly, and the Toyota parts cost way more than comparable parts for a domestic vehicle.