A/C is warm

[stamp11127]

Static indicates charge is just a tad low which is fine. That is what we want. At 69 degrees it should be 3-4 psi above ambient temp.

Don't do anything yet because this is a good one to think about since you don't have a recovery machine. If you did it would be real easy. We'd just suck it back out, note how much oil came with it and put back to specs.

The PAG oil used should have been PAG46.

I'll look at my 99 today and see if it is possible to install the orifice tube backwards.

 

[juan214]

Static indicates charge is just a tad low which is fine. That is what we want. At 69 degrees it should be 3-4 psi above ambient temp.

Don't do anything yet because this is a good one to think about since you don't have a recovery machine. If you did it would be real easy. We'd just suck it back out, note how much oil came with it and put back to specs.

The PAG oil used should have been PAG46.

I'll look at my 99 today and see if it is possible to install the orifice tube backwards.

Don't do anything yet because this is a good one to think about since you don't have a recovery machine. If you did it would be real easy.
Not touching it this morning have to drive into Boston today a few hours back and forth.

We'd just suck it back out, note how much oil came with it and put back to specs.
A minimum of 2.2 oz. of oil and dye came back out.

Looks like I use just over a 1/2 oz of dye through diagnosis and recharge combined.


The PAG oil used should have been PAG46.
The oil came supplied with the parts kit for the truck.

Bottle currently weighs 6.6 oz (including bottle probably .05 ox. for the bottle) and contained 8 .oz. So So I originaly charge less than 2.5 oz. I thought iI put in 3 oz.

 

[stamp11127]

It's been raining on and off here today. As I'm getting closer to retirement my comfort zone is getting narrower, if I'm going to get wet there had better be a temp adj knob within reach.

This is from your reply #22:
Got it down to 40 - 42 / 197 - 200 give or take..... Vent still at 76 - 78 degrees

The problem lies in this area somewhere. Evap air temp is "40- 42" degrees. Even if the refrigerant charge was low you would still get cooling at the accumulator.

Leave the system as it is. Let it run for 5-10 minutes to stabilize then take a temp reading with the ir gun right on the accumulator outlet pipe that connects to the compressor. Take another reading at the input connection to the evap. We will also need to know the low side pressure at that time.

Repeat the same test but raise the engine rpm to 2500. Will need temp and pressure readings. That is used to determine if the evap is getting enough refrigerant, too little or too much.

This will allow me to check the superheat amount at idle and higher rpms.

Between last year and now was the system ever opened to the air for any length of time, or was it sealed? When you replaced the components, did you use any shop air to blow them out including the lines?

When you charged the system, did you use low side gas or low side liquid? The difference is how the can is positioned. Normal will be gas, upside down is liquid.

 

[stamp11127]

What occurred a year ago that necessitated changing all those components?

 

[Motorcity muscle]

Great thread, HVAC-R guy but not much with cars, will be following along.

 

[stamp11127]

It is basically the same concept except that auto doesn't get into superheat, subcooling, different refrigerants and no reversing valves. Component sizes are larger in refrigeration.

This is a good one - he has evap temps in the low 40's but no cooling. Lines and accumulator aren't cold.

 

[juan214]

What occurred a year ago that necessitated changing all those components?

I had to look up the conversation this was two years ago.

May 26, 2017 started conversation with Big Brian on here.

99 Expy EB w/ rear a/c & heat

Charged a/c with sealer last summer (2016) held for a while. Every year prior it would drop a little. It was low again this year (2017) guess there is a leak(s). I found a wet spot between the inner fender and firewall coming down the a/c lines. So I took the right inner fender out to inspected the lines. The wet spot must have been an accumulation of oil dripping from my funnel I store above that spot (thank god) kept the lines clean. While it was off I unbolted the lines there and all the way to the back to visually inspect the lines. Found no issues with rubbing, rot, cracks on them. Bolted all the lines back on and inspected the other lines behind the inner fender found no visual damage. Put in 12 oz of R-134a with dye, not enough compresor didn't kick on. Put another straight twelve in compressor kicked on it cooled. Not cold enough put another 12 in waste of money. A total of 36 ounces the most I have ever put in a vehicle in my life. Took a drive with the Family an it was nice. Checked for leaks that night with a uv pen light. Found sporadic spots up top i'm thinking it's from when I took the can off. So I scrubbed most of those off so I could check them on day two. Day two no a/c. Its a clean truck washed regularly with no rot and minimal rust here and there.

Findings.

• Where I cleaned looked the same (clean).
• Found dye at at charge port assuming it just from the fill.
  
• Found dye at Pressure sensor on the line.
• Found dye at Condenser on the line where the line(s) connect(s)
  
• Found dye at Compressor between the pulley and compressor and around the outside of it. I assume either its either failed everywhere, leaching through, or it sprayed back.

Plan:

• Get a Vacuum Pump
• Get a Gauge set
• Replace compressor either new
• Replace oil
• Replace all o-rings
• Replace Expansion Valve
• Relace Orifice Tube
• Replace Receiver Drier / Accumulator
• Replace O-rings at condenser
• Replace HP Sensor

Dumb question(s)

1. Can I vacuum test for leaks with the oil in the compressor?
2. Should I move this to the site?

Never done A/C work before never had an issue til now. Any tips or ideas are great appreciated. I remember when A/C was a luxury.....

Mainly for the passengers, me Ill roll the window down even with A/C on.

Thanks in advance
________________________________________________________________________

Started on July 4th. 2017 an all parts installed and vaced July 6th. 2017
________________________________________________________________________

New questions Rich:
During replacing all the parts o-ring, o-tube, dryer can something get screwed up?
Should I change out the dryer maybe it got screwed up during parts replacement or failed?
Exposure?
Vacumm issue?

 

[stamp11127]

Juan hate to tell you this, but you screwed it:

"Charged a/c with sealer last summer (2016)"

Flush time - everything - lines, compressor, condenser, txv, both evaps. Swap out the oil in the compressor also. New accumulator. Basically start from scratch. I'd even pull the orifice tube to clean and make sure it is installed correctly.

We use something similar to this:
https://www.tooltopia.com/mastercool-91046-a.aspx

Might start with about 1/2 gallon of the flush also.

Once everything is cleaned out, the new accumulator is the last to be installed. As soon as you open it to the air it starts absorbing moisture. Speed is of the essence here, there is a time limit before the desiccant becomes saturated. I tell the students 10 min max.

PAG46 oil: We use 50-75% of rated capacity, result is components last longer. Since you have rear air I would put 75% of the amount in. One ounce of oil in each component with the remainder in the compressor. Turn the compressor by hand as you add the oil.

 

[juan214]

It's been raining on and off here today. As I'm getting closer to retirement my comfort zone is getting narrower, if I'm going to get wet there had better be a temp adj knob within reach.

This is from your reply #22:
Got it down to 40 - 42 / 197 - 200 give or take..... Vent still at 76 - 78 degrees

The problem lies in this area somewhere. Evap air temp is "40- 42" degrees. Even if the refrigerant charge was low you would still get cooling at the accumulator.

Leave the system as it is. Let it run for 5-10 minutes to stabilize then take a temp reading with the ir gun right on the accumulator outlet pipe that connects to the compressor. Take another reading at the input connection to the evap. We will also need to know the low side pressure at that time.

Repeat the same test but raise the engine rpm to 2500. Will need temp and pressure readings. That is used to determine if the evap is getting enough refrigerant, too little or too much.

This will allow me to check the superheat amount at idle and higher rpms.

Between last year and now was the system ever opened to the air for any length of time, or was it sealed? When you replaced the components, did you use any shop air to blow them out including the lines?

When you charged the system, did you use low side gas or low side liquid? The difference is how the can is positioned. Normal will be gas, upside down is liquid.

Static Pressure @ 1016 p.m. (sitting for over thee hours):

Leave the system as it is. Let it run for 5-10 minutes to stabilize then take a temp reading with the ir gun right on the accumulator outlet pipe that connects to the compressor. Take another reading at the input connection to the evap. We will also need to know the low side pressure at that time.

Hope I did this right (driven for ten minutes):

Repeat the same test but raise the engine rpm to 2500. Will need temp and pressure readings. That is used to determine if the evap is getting enough refrigerant, too little or too much.


Between last year and now was the system ever opened to the air for any length of time, or was it sealed? When you replaced the components, did you use any shop air to blow them out including the lines?

• No, sealed as it still held pressure all this time. Only when the replacement parts were being installed could air get in.
• No shop air, compressor hass been shot for years. I'm a backyader here in the woods wrenching regularly.

Question: How long would have been open to be an issue?

When you charged the system, did you use low side gas or low side liquid? The difference is how the can is positioned. Normal will be gas, upside down is liquid.

• Gas, I beieve the can sat on radiator support or in my hands, may have shaken not sure.
• I do not I beleive I recharged last year, if I did the that can would have been liquid due port location and length of charge hose.
• I also still had my sixth can with refrigerant hose still in it from 2017. So originally I only put in 60 oz. into the system. As the sixth can was still connected to my charge hose this year.

 

[juan214]

Juan hate to tell you this, but you screwed it:

"Charged a/c with sealer last summer (2016)"

Flush time - everything - lines, compressor, condenser, txv, both evaps. Swap out the oil in the compressor also. New accumulator. Basically start from scratch. I'd even pull the orifice tube to clean and make sure it is installed correctly.

We use something similar to this:
https://www.tooltopia.com/mastercool-91046-a.aspx

Might start with about 1/2 gallon of the flush also.

Once everything is cleaned out, the new accumulator is the last to be installed. As soon as you open it to the air it starts absorbing moisture. Speed is of the essence here, there is a time limit before the desiccant becomes saturated. I tell the students 10 min max.

PAG46 oil: We use 50-75% of rated capacity, result is components last longer. Since you have rear air I would put 75% of the amount in. One ounce of oil in each component with the remainder in the compressor. Turn the compressor by hand as you add the oil.

Surprised Big Brian didn't say anything before i put all the new parts. Plus bleeding out the air out of the yellow line.

Oh well figured I would be doing it again anyway now to figure how.

A/C System Flush Kit I can get as a loaner.

I think one of my neighbors has a pancake air compressor.

Flush I can get one quart locally and need to drive to get another
AC Pro Certified A/C Pro Flush & Clean Solvent Based (1 Quart) 19.99 each $42.47
Amazon
Four Seasons 69994 Super Flush Solvent, 32 Oz/ 946 ml $11.41 3 quarts for $34.23
Supercool FFG Automotive Accessories, 128. Fluid_Ounces $36.46

Do I need to remove any parts to do any of this work?
Shoud the condesor be changed or flush it?

Found this kind of odd as well tonight.

 

[stamp11127]

Which vent are you calling the front vent? The vents in the dash are the defrost, left driver, center and right passenger. Your temp readings indicate you have a air distribution problem. Try the different modes (defrost, floor, vent). If it doesn't change you may have a vacuum problem to the EATC. The default is the defrost when you have a vac leak.

Your temp readings - no way in hell you are getting those high temps at the accumulator. The ir gun is suspect. You can't get 37.8 from the front vent and have refrigerant at 109 degrees.
Read your body temp with it - should be 98.6

(Hold off on this right now, but here are the steps)
To Flush:
All the components need to be opened so the flush can be shot in one line and allowed to drain and evaporate from the other. We use a shop rag on the line that exits to avoid blowing that crap everywhere.
I would even go as far to install new o-rings since you are not supposed to reuse them. The only components that should be removed is the compressor, txv and front orifice tube.
Drain the oil from the compressor on the bench, add some, spin the compressor over to mix the good with the bad. Drain the mixture & repeat one more time.

Coat all o-rings with a little bit of PAG oil before installing.

Once you are ready to button it up add oil as follows:
Front evap - 1 oz
Rear evap - 1 oz
Condenser - 1 oz
Lines to the rear -1 oz
Accumulator - 1 oz (trash you current one)
Compressor - 4 oz (give it time to fill)

This will give you a total of 9 oz ( 2 oz short of factory spec)

If you haven't changed the fan clutch I'd change that also. It would be 20 years on the original. If it isn't shot now it will be soon.

Hose off the radiator and condenser once everything is back together.

To those that are following this thread remember this. Using sealer will mean flushing the system down the road.

Evacuation:
Since the system has been open to moisture, it will be loaded with it. The longer you can vacuum the better. You must achieve at least -29 for it to boil off the water vapor and be vented by the pump. I would go a total of 4 hrs in 30 minute intervals with time in between to let the pump cool off. If the gauge set shows it doesn't maintain vac in the pauses or it doesn't reach that deep vacuum, you have a leak. R134a is very sensitive to the presence of moisture.

Take your time, do it right and you only do it once!

 

[juan214]

9L30 a.m.

 

[juan214]

Which vent are you calling the front vent?

• Front is always Front Center Left next to radio.
• Center Cabin is behind drivers head in ceiling
• Rear is rear center over rear seat.

Front

25 Degree difference (gun must be wrong)

Center Vent

Rear Vent

 

[juan214]

Your temp readings indicate you have a air distribution problem. Try the different modes (defrost, floor, vent). If it doesn't change you may have a vacuum problem to the EATC. The default is the defrost when you have a vac leak.

• Modes all work fine
• System is not defaulted
• Rear blower works fine
• Rear modes work fine
• Reaplaced check valve years ago no problems since

 

[stamp11127]

What does the temp gun say your body temp is?
Place the thermometer on your body for a comparison reading. (I had to word that differently a few times so it wouldn't be taken wrong!)

 

[juan214]

What does the temp gun say your body temp is?
Place the thermometer on your body for a comparison reading. (I had to word that differently a few times so it wouldn't be taken wrong!)

Your temp readings - no way in hell you are getting those high temps at the accumulator. The ir gun is suspect. You can't get 37.8 from the front vent and have refrigerant at 109 degrees.

Read your body temp with it - should be 98.6 Mine is a cool 91 just like me LOL.

Top of accumulator


Top of Hose for rear A/C


Exhaust manifold


Air Conditioning Compressor

OVERKill at the Front Vent it's 12* warmer now than this morning
​

 

[juan214]

This morning was cooling while waiting for my wife....

From evap not hoses they were dry.

 

[stamp11127]

Toss the upper right thermometer since it is off by 11-12 degrees.

At 125 degrees, does the accumulator feel warm/hot?

Place either of the two other thermometers on the accumulator and see what they say it is. It needs to be on the metal part of the lines or can.

Please post a pic of the accumulator as it is mounted in the engine compartment.

I take it the last pic is of the condensate under the truck? If it is the system is working at some point.

FYI - in auto ac, the larger diameter line is the suction/low pressure side. The smaller line is the high pressure line - which gets hot.

 

[stamp11127]

In the past did your old compressor shoot a bunch of junk into the system? You would see metal shavings on the orifice tube screen.

 

[juan214]

What does the temp gun say your body temp is?
Place the thermometer on your body for a comparison reading. (I had to word that differently a few times so it wouldn't be taken wrong!)

Can the Ambient sensor under the hood screw with this?
Truck says its 75* iPhone says it 85*, Once in a while the truck is off.

WE HAVE DRIPPAGE AGAIN!
​

Bottom of Plenum is colder now. Put had in ther the EVAP is warm, But when I move my closer to the passengers door it real cold. I believe the ompressor sounds louder now.