JExpedition07
That One Member
The trucks inner owl doesn’t buy it:
Engine runs rough when cold. At dealer here is what they found.......
- Thread starter Steve Owens
- Start date
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Steve Owens
Active Member
I was there when they ran all the computer test, compression test and oil pressure test, and they decided to remove the rocker cover. Had Broken rocker, damaged the cam, also removed the pan, turns out pieces of the cam tensioner plastic was also in the pan along with lots of metal shavings. So apparently had other things going on.
I always run synthetic oil. Inside the engine looked like new.
As mentioned above.........Forced engine purchases turn out to be blessings in disguise.
No other problems with anything else on the truck. Cheaper to spend $7K than $70K on a new expedition, and I keep my V8 !! It's paid for !! and with a new engine...
Stuff happens, so I move on.
I always run synthetic oil. Inside the engine looked like new.
As mentioned above.........Forced engine purchases turn out to be blessings in disguise.
No other problems with anything else on the truck. Cheaper to spend $7K than $70K on a new expedition, and I keep my V8 !! It's paid for !! and with a new engine...
Stuff happens, so I move on.
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JExpedition07
That One Member
As Hamfisted stated it’s a better idea to run a slightly thicker oil in these too, the 5W-30 will feed the cams more oil when there is pressure loss.....for the next engine
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JExpedition07
That One Member
I’m a bit disappointed in Ford with the later models having the same failures the 05 trucks had in the day. Ah well.
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My next comments about a miss was going to be rocker arms or valve train components but that simply would not be when it's cold only. You would always have a dead cylinder miss when it was running even after it warmed up. It might be less noticeable but in Drive and even under light load you would certainly feel that cylinder missing and should also have a check engine code light pop on because the computer would know that cylinder is missing.
No way will I ever 1000s in a new engine but everyone else's mileage may vary.
Of course I wouldn't be at the dealer paying them they're exceptionally high prices to diagnose either. Once I got to wear the valve train was the problem.
Depending on how badly the cam was messed up I would have just replace the roller rocker or had it replaced or the camshaft and the roller rocker. Tons of these engines have bits of plastic from the tensioners and guys wearing in the oil pan. It's par for the course. Then I would have sold the vehicle and put the money into it to buy something new and had a lot less than 7000 in the upgrade.
But I don't believe in going to massive endeavors to keep vehicles.
Most people do.
I will call it quits on one and get rid of it and replace it with another at a far lower price threshold than most people. In the end I always come out having spent less money than it would cost to fix.
It is however, more aggravating, more time-consuming, and has at least a degree of increased risk. This is why most people don't go this way. It has worked well for me though.
At least with a new engine you have some peace of mind and probably won't have any issues for a good number of years.
I'm just not willing to pay for that piece of mind.
07navi
Full Access Members
Weird how you can see the owl's diagonally moving second eyelid.
I had this exact same thing happen to my 11 last summer. Spent about 6k installed on the "new" re-man with an upgraded oil pump and a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty. It hurt the wallet but way cheaper than a new rig and I see a noticeable increase in performance. Also, spent another 1K on a few minor upgrades and replacements while they had the front end opened up such as the water pump/belt/hoses. It's basically all new in there.
Williamb97
Member
Ford oil pressure "gauges" are just like a light. Not an indication of pressure.
I understand it's a nice feeling when it's all done I just don't see why more people don't go buy a good used engine and install.
You could even pull the timing cover and do the chain and gears while it's out of the vehicle which is a super easy job if you wanted to minimize the chances of future cam phaser and tensioner issues.
I guess most people don't do their own work and it's too much of a hassle to find someone who will. Easier just to have it towed in to the shop or dealer and pay the big bucks. I can go on Marketplace and buy eight or ten Vehicles today the complete vehicle for under $2,000 with a perfectly good running engine maybe with bad transmission or whatever. Or wrecked. I could swap the engine
Then sell parts from the rest of the vehicle and then sell what is left at scrap metal and come out actually making money.
I actually enjoy parting out vehicles.
I just parted out a Ford SUV fir over 3000. It wouldn't have been worth 2500 when it was running before I started taking Parts out on a good day I would have been lucky to get two thousand cash for it and would have taken forever to sell it. When parting it out, I have dozens of people contacting me wanting to buy the same Parts over and over.
I had an engine fail oh, a V10, a few years back in a Ford truck. I was in a super hurry to replace it and I lucked into a great deal on an engine and transmission combo. When I was done I I almost made money on the engine swap because the transmission I got was so valuable.
Some people value their time more than I do I guess. I value money much more than time, aggravation, or convenience.
JExpedition07
That One Member
Depends what your time is worth. If you make a lot of money you are losing money doing an engine swap yourself, just pay someone to do it. I’m in college full time and work part time, for me the only option would be to order the reman and install myself. Only valid reason for the earlier would be to do it for enjoyment. I advise to not buy junkyard engines there is no rules or body for verifying mileage. If you must buy a used engine get it from Copart or LKQ (insurance total losses) because they indicate actual mileage and have return policies should you get a dud.
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Well, LKQ is what I call a junkyard anyways so I wouldn't recommend against junk yards in general. I would definitely want to know the mileage on the engine or even hear it run. My LKQ gets tons of running vehicles in there all the time.
I prefer my option of buying from individual sellers who are selling vehicles for parts. These cars are dirt cheap and often you can stand there and run them as long as you want to listen to the engines.
I've heard people use the argument about how much they make so their time is worth more many times. I don't really believe that. I'm not suggesting anyone take off work on a Wednesday or Thursday and lose 6 hours of their job pay to work on their car. I'm saying that no one I know works every waking moment. Most people take off weekends or have a day or two off throughout the week. This is what I'm saying to work. Never sacrifice job income but trade off some free time when you're doing nothing oh, watching TV, or posting on forums like I do to kill time like this... And work on your car then. Or even at night after work.
The fact is, most people are willing to pay for convenience and warranties or guarantees. Unfortunately, the convenience and these warranties do come with a hefty price tag in auto repair.
Bad injector at #8.
PCM will run injector duration open longer when engine is cold (Rich).
Carbon fluff on plug indicates rich mixture and fouling
Fouling and wet plug creates misfire condition on #8 cylinder
Engine at full operating temperature will result in PCM reducing injector opening duration (Lean)
Leaner conditions in #8 cylinder plus full operating temperature will dry fuel saturated plug and misfire condition will be gone.
You didn’t mention which cylinders you changed coils on.. best to replace all of them at once.
Don’t use Accel coils
Find another dealership for servicing your vehicle.
PCM will run injector duration open longer when engine is cold (Rich).
Carbon fluff on plug indicates rich mixture and fouling
Fouling and wet plug creates misfire condition on #8 cylinder
Engine at full operating temperature will result in PCM reducing injector opening duration (Lean)
Leaner conditions in #8 cylinder plus full operating temperature will dry fuel saturated plug and misfire condition will be gone.
You didn’t mention which cylinders you changed coils on.. best to replace all of them at once.
Don’t use Accel coils
Find another dealership for servicing your vehicle.
All very probable. You can even have a bad spark plug that leaks around the insulator or misfires until it gets warm and things start expanding.
These new style techs who don't know how to troubleshoot anything without their scan tool or laptop or just throw Parts at it or say replace the engine irk me to no end.
Motorcity muscle
Full Access Members
Big expense for a lower mileage engine, so is it possible oil caused the breakage by retarding timing?
Roger Phillips
Member
My 06 had plastic timing chain guides-caused the only real issue I’ve had.. have over 500k on it-while it’s a part you may want to have them replace it with aluminum
Hodoor-Hodoor
Member
Hey all, This is my first post so here's my two cents worth. Bought '05 a couple of years ago and although it was generally healthy it had the same type of issues that you are having. Weak power and miss fires running up and down the banks. Plugs and coils replaced with some improvement. Given the age of the vehicle and considering the maintenance wasn't great I started changing out the basics. My greatest response came from of all things the replacement of the fuel filter. It really helped out on just about everything. Of course several months later the fuel pump gave out too. However changing that out didn't make any performance changes that I could tell. The last item that took care of rough idle and low power was the MAS. That seemed to be stuck at some restricted signal output that caused the computer to limit its schedules regardless of engine temp or RPM. My engine now has so few bits of rough idle and misses that it's the exception rather than the norm. The power is back throughout the RPM and peddle range and fuel milage went from 12.5 to 15.1. I think I may replace the oxygen sensor next to see if that finishes it off. Remember that it may not be the plug, coil, or engine mechanicals but the computer responding to garbage in, garbage out. The electronics feeding the computer may not have failed outright but are diminished in their operational capability. At the beginning I did have a shop look at it with their analyzer and it came back with non conclusive results and mechanic recommendations to do all sorts of expensive stuff. The fuel filter and MAS are inexpensive by comparison even if they don't totally fix you problems you can at least eliminate that from you list of possible culprits.
You really shouldn't be getting any misfires. I don't consider an 05 old at all. I have a daily driver 98 and a pickup truck that's a 93 that sits for months at a time. They both start up and run perfect with no misfires or issues whatsoever and neither one has had many parts replaced or been religiously maintain. They've been quite neglected.
Don't fall into that trap that so many people do thinking it's because the car is all of its going to have problems. This is why so many people buy new cars every so often or keep newer vehicles. Especially now that things are starting to have some very expensive repairs when they do need them, I prefer to keep the old ones.
I actually think I'm starting a collection. I just bought a 2000 last year with 49,000 miles on it and another 2000 last month with 85000.
The first one I drove 3 1/2 hours to get it home and the second one was a 17-hour trip to get back over 800 miles with stops for food and gas.
fuzzmanmatt
Full Access Members
Well, when I had a shop do mine it was because I couldn't find an engine with under 150,000 miles on it, and they were all around $2200. Yes, I paid about twice that plus labor, but it was done in a week and came with a warranty. I use my truck for search and rescue, I've done a ton of custom work to it myself, but for the engine? I need it to run, and I need it now. The extra $3,000 I paid was worth it to me.
What area are you in where engines are so scarce?
I often say that people choose to spend the extra money for convenience and peace of mind. If that's worth it to them then it is worth it to them. It simply is not to me because I'm too much of a cheap bastard.
Now if you saw what I will spend for Heinz Ketchup, Paul Mitchell super clean styling gel and what I pay to eat out for myself my family you would be staggered and have to sit down at the numbers.
We all have things that are important to us.
Maybe it's also because I have far too many cars to worry about doing everything top notch or spending lots of money on one when the repairs necessary. Other people that only have one or two it's an easier pill to swallow.
I always joke with people that my use part repairs have a guarantee to. Guaranteed to spend less money than if you went to a garage. Even paying top dollar for a used engine, I could do the job three to four times before I equal the amount of money it would cost me just to take it somewhere.
I almost put a reman engine in a town car one time but then I found out a local shop who rebuilds them would do everything with a good warranty for only $400 more. It wasn't worth getting my hands dirty and pulling the engine hoist out for $400 but, the engine ended up not being shot and I was able to fix it for almost nothing. Now, after many more years of experience, I would not bother putting a reman block or having one rebuilt. I would just go buy a decent mile one that ran fine it swapped them myself.
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