Which Tune? MPT vs Livernois vs 5 Star vs Unleashed

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LokiWolf

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Since January, discontinued all catless DPs
View attachment 38023

Cool. Guess you can custom order them for Track applications...All good.

MB, looks like SPD high flows is your ticket.

Just for clarity, best exhaust for a Turbo powered vehicle performance wise, is no exhaust. Get heat out as quick as possible, with the least restriction. That is not the same as a NA Motor where you need back pressure.

Tuners CANNOT recommend removing Cats, because well, the feds. Most will give the cop out that it smells or loses power. Just not true.


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Muddy Bean

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I’m already sold on MPT at this point based on solid reviews and their ngauge setup. I like it very much on paper. Contacting them tomorrow and ordering catted DP’s tomorrow as well. I’ll let you know my thoughts.


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LokiWolf

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I’m already sold on MPT at this point based on solid reviews and their ngauge setup. I like it very much on paper. Contacting them tomorrow and ordering catted DP’s tomorrow as well. I’ll let you know my thoughts.


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Nice. Definitely interested in your impressions after you get it all setup. Way to be different!


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Yupster Dog

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Cool. Guess you can custom order them for Track applications...All good.

MB, looks like SPD high flows is your ticket.

Just for clarity, best exhaust for a Turbo powered vehicle performance wise, is no exhaust. Get heat out as quick as possible, with the least restriction. That is not the same as a NA Motor where you need back pressure.

Tuners CANNOT recommend removing Cats, because well, the feds. Most will give the cop out that it smells or loses power. Just not true.


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There needs to be a new sub section ECO Boost 3.5 turbo performance.
Because That post was so well said it needs to be a sticky.
Of course if that sub section existed the second sticky would have to be "REPORT @Sunflowergirl HERE"
 

Sunflowergirl

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There needs to be a new sub section ECO Boost 3.5 turbo performance.
Because That post was so well said it needs to be a sticky.
Of course if that sub section existed the second sticky would have to be "REPORT @Sunflowergirl HERE"
Lol you’re crazy man! You must not know me! 16plati baby! Lighten up and stop being so serious. If you don’t like me, there’s an ignore button you can hit and you won’t see my posts anymore.
 

Sunflowergirl

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Cool. Guess you can custom order them for Track applications...All good.

MB, looks like SPD high flows is your ticket.

Just for clarity, best exhaust for a Turbo powered vehicle performance wise, is no exhaust. Get heat out as quick as possible, with the least restriction. That is not the same as a NA Motor where you need back pressure.

Tuners CANNOT recommend removing Cats, because well, the feds. Most will give the cop out that it smells or loses power. Just not true.


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Yeah except there’s two different things that need to be said here. Racing vs street driving.

Racing you’ll spend most of your time in the upper tom range which is where you would want that greater flow and less back pressure.

normal street driving where ppl rarely see above 3500 rpm you will lose low end torque on an otherwise completely stock or even tuned vehicle since you have none of that back pressure. All your HP gains will be top end but you don’t drive top end on a daily driver as normal driving. So there are times when it’s advantageous. A solid setup would be upgraded IC and pipes, CAI (closed box), catted hi flow DPs and turbo adapters, and a straight through design 3.5” DP back exhaust with a resonator on these trucks for maximum air flow efficiency. You can change DPs but until you change the amount of air coming into the truck, there’s really no point in changing the amount of air leaving due to the whole back pressure thing and loss of low end power. And to top it off, to pull the gains together you’ll need a solid tune. I personally stay away from every 3 letter tuning company. I have read and seen evidence and experiences from SSI, BCB, ZFG (yeah ray I said it) that turn me away all the time from even trying them out
 

LokiWolf

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Yeah except there’s two different things that need to be said here. Racing vs street driving.

Racing you’ll spend most of your time in the upper tom range which is where you would want that greater flow and less back pressure.

normal street driving where ppl rarely see above 3500 rpm you will lose low end torque on an otherwise completely stock or even tuned vehicle since you have none of that back pressure. All your HP gains will be top end but you don’t drive top end on a daily driver as normal driving. So there are times when it’s advantageous. A solid setup would be upgraded IC and pipes, CAI (closed box), catted hi flow DPs and turbo adapters, and a straight through design 3.5” DP back exhaust with a resonator on these trucks for maximum air flow efficiency. You can change DPs but until you change the amount of air coming into the truck, there’s really no point in changing the amount of air leaving due to the whole back pressure thing and loss of low end power. And to top it off, to pull the gains together you’ll need a solid tune. I personally stay away from every 3 letter tuning company. I have read and seen evidence and experiences from SSI, BCB, ZFG (yeah ray I said it) that turn me away all the time from even trying them out

MPT is a 3 letter name. Are you saying Muddy shouldn't use them. Have you used them and have experience with them?

5 Star could be abbreviated to 3... 5ST. HaHa, couldn't resist.

Man, You REALLY need to stop drinking the CoolAid.

How many motors have you worked on or actually built in your life?

REALLY don't want to get in a ******* match with you. But I know WAY more than what I read on the internet. Been around tuning for 20+ years, and working on Motors for 25+. I actually used to tune diesels.

Your argument that you have to increase air in for the change in DP's to help is SO flawed I have no idea where to start. Let's just start with heat...It is about getting the hot gasses away from the motor. There is NO aftermarket intake for the Explorer ST, yet adding the SPD Downpipes has allowed tuners to dial in more power. Why? Because the better flowing exhaust is allowing heat to leave and get away from the Turbo's lowering EGT's. Same deal on a Diesel. The power band might move slightly, but you are NOT going to lose any low end like on NA Motor. It definitely is not going to cause you to have to keep it above 3500 RPM's to get power.
 
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Muddy Bean

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So change of plans, called MPT this morning because their website doesn’t allow you to put in a billing address and a separate shipping address. Guy on the phone wasn’t helpful and just said they can’t do it. I mentioned that I work on the road so I’m always in a different state and really need to have the tuner shipped to a different address than my billing address. He said to call my bank to fix it???? I hung up and called ZFG, spoke to Adam for ten minutes and was sold. I have a two tune and tuner package coming by tomorrow and I’m looking forward to dialing in my truck for better.


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Sunflowergirl

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MPT is a 3 letter name. Are you saying Muddy shouldn't use them. Have you used them and have experience with them?

5 Star could be abbreviated to 3... 5ST. HaHa, couldn't resist.

Man, You REALLY need to stop drinking the CoolAid.

How many motors have you worked on or actually built in your life?

REALLY don't want to get in a ******* match with you. But I know WAY more than what I read on the internet. Been around tuning for 20+ years, and working on Motors for 25+. I actually used to tune diesels.

Your argument that you have to increase air in for the change in DP's to help is SO flawed I have no idea where to start. Let's just start with heat...It is about getting the hot gasses away from the motor. There is NO aftermarket intake for the Explorer ST, yet adding the SPD Downpipes has allowed tuners to dial in more power. Why? Because the better flowing exhaust is allowing heat to leave and get away from the Turbo's lowering EGT's. Same deal on a Diesel. The power band might move slightly, but you are NOT going to lose any low end like on NA Motor. It definitely is not going to cause you to have to keep it above 3500 RPM's to get power.
I love the ignore button. Just keep throwing money at stuff. Seems to work for ya
 

LokiWolf

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I love the ignore button. Just keep throwing money at stuff. Seems to work for ya

Haven't thrown any money at stuff. I have done 3 things power/engine wise to both my 2020 Explorer ST and 2020 Expedition. 2 of them have little or no power benefit. AFE Dry Drop in Filters, JLT Catch Cans, and Tuning. ZFG E85 on Stock Fuel System on the Expedition Daily, and ZFG E50 on the ST daily.

Best 0-60 on the Expedition is 4.71, and the best on the ST is 3.75. Not to mention better shifting.

Pretty Happy with the performance for the money!
 

LokiWolf

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So change of plans, called MPT this morning because their website doesn’t allow you to put in a billing address and a separate shipping address. Guy on the phone wasn’t helpful and just said they can’t do it. I mentioned that I work on the road so I’m always in a different state and really need to have the tuner shipped to a different address than my billing address. He said to call my bank to fix it???? I hung up and called ZFG, spoke to Adam for ten minutes and was sold. I have a two tune and tuner package coming by tomorrow and I’m looking forward to dialing in my truck for better.


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Enjoy! Definitely looking forward to seeing what you think. Was also curious about MPT.
 

JasonH

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Haven't thrown any money at stuff. I have done 3 things power/engine wise to both my 2020 Explorer ST and 2020 Expedition. 2 of them have little or no power benefit. AFE Dry Drop in Filters, JLT Catch Cans, and Tuning. ZFG E85 on Stock Fuel System on the Expedition Daily, and ZFG E50 on the ST daily.

Best 0-60 on the Expedition is 4.71, and the best on the ST is 3.75. Not to mention better shifting.

Pretty Happy with the performance for the money!

Thanks for all the info. Now I'm thinking about getting an Explorer and tuning it for a daily driver. I don't like putting miles on my Expedition, since it's our tow vehicle.

Have you thought about upgrading to the Full-Race twin turbo kit for the 3.5 Ecoboost? I think it fits the Expedition.
 
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Muddy Bean

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Funny you ask, I actually blew my drivers side turbo at around 100,000 miles. It was replaced under warranty along with throttle body, leaking coolant line etc. If I happen to throw my turbo (s) again, I’ll absolutely upgrade.


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JasonH

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Funny you ask, I actually blew my drivers side turbo at around 100,000 miles. It was replaced under warranty along with throttle body, leaking coolant line etc. If I happen to throw my turbo (s) again, I’ll absolutely upgrade.


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What OCI and oil type are you using? Short trips or highway? Max boost? Trying to maximize longevity on the tow vehicle. It has an extended warranty until 125K. I may get a 2018+ after that.
 

Boostedbus

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Just for clarity, best exhaust for a Turbo powered vehicle performance wise, is no exhaust. Get heat out as quick as possible, with the least restriction. That is not the same as a NA Motor where you need back pressure.
Yeah I would think the back pressure from the turbos in the beginning of spooling (TURBO LAG) would be enough resistance or back pressure. Like you stated it’s not a NA Motor.
 

Sunflowergirl

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Yeah I would think the back pressure from the turbos in the beginning of spooling (TURBO LAG) would be enough resistance or back pressure. Like you stated it’s not a NA Motor.
Yeah man just head over to ZFG, they will get you setup with literally whatever you want! You wanna run 100% ethanol or propane injection they will set u up!
 

LokiWolf

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Yeah man just head over to ZFG, they will get you setup with literally whatever you want! You wanna run 100% ethanol or propane injection they will set u up!

Now you are just being ridiculous. Don’t want to listen to anybody. This is what gets you in trouble around here.

Methanol, sure. Propane is for diesels. Also, can’t run 100% ethanol...it would flash WAY too easy.

You act like ZFG is blowing stuff up left and right. Show me some proof.

Just because somebody doesn’t recommend 5 Star, doesn’t mean they are wrong.


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LokiWolf

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Thanks for all the info. Now I'm thinking about getting an Explorer and tuning it for a daily driver. I don't like putting miles on my Expedition, since it's our tow vehicle.

Have you thought about upgrading to the Full-Race twin turbo kit for the 3.5 Ecoboost? I think it fits the Expedition.

I love my ST, but word of advice wait until the 2021's. The 2020's have some first year issues. Mine has been good, but others haven't been that lucky. 21's are going to have some harness changes, and be a little less expensive, and some of the options are going to be cheaper too. Worth the wait.

My 2020 Expedition is my wife's daily, so it will stay on the Stock Turbo's for now. Might do an upgraded HPFP(High Pressure Fuel Pump) sometime this Winter, so I can run E85 at full tilt. It is relatively easy to swap it out and back to stock for dealer work. Other thing on the list is the upgraded IC.

My ST is SO much fun. Even on a ZFG 93 it is good for 4.06 0-60 and 12.32 1/4 on Dragy. I laugh when a SRT anything pulls up next to me. Out of the hole, on the street they don't have a chance.
 
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