Cam Phaser engine damage

[Mike Delaney]

I just took my 2018 FX4 in for the same issue. There is a Service Bulletin 21B10 on the topic. I was told they cannot perform the fix right now as it will then cause issue with the transmission. The current fix they where using was an update to the computer system. Ford is working on the fix, and just came up with one for the F150. I was told it will not damage the engine, so i am in a wait and see when the fix happens.

 

[GenSuper]

My cam phaser job also took two days. No argument from the dealer, it's recognized as a common problem.

 

[aggiegrad05]

I just took my 2018 FX4 in for the same issue. There is a Service Bulletin 21B10 on the topic. I was told they cannot perform the fix right now as it will then cause issue with the transmission. The current fix they where using was an update to the computer system. Ford is working on the fix, and just came up with one for the F150. I was told it will not damage the engine, so i am in a wait and see when the fix happens.

@Artie I wonder if they tried to push the update on ours and that's why we're having transmission-ish issues.

 

[Artie]

@Artie I wonder if they tried to push the update on ours and that's why we're having transmission-ish issues.

There was zero mention of it in the paperwork I got back from the service provider. I should scan it myself and see what shows up on my OBD fusion thing.

 

[3DogRanch]

I just got a service bulletin/recall for Cam Phasers on my new 2020 KR. The description said it was software only. Only ~3k miles on it so far. I wonder if they're shooting in the dark on this one.

I just got mine back from the dealer for a left front shock R&R under warranty. They told me that Ford Corporate is asking them to hold off on the Cam Phaser software update because they are finding that it causes software problems with the 10 speed transmission.

 

[3DogRanch]

I just took my 2018 FX4 in for the same issue. There is a Service Bulletin 21B10 on the topic. I was told they cannot perform the fix right now as it will then cause issue with the transmission. The current fix they where using was an update to the computer system. Ford is working on the fix, and just came up with one for the F150. I was told it will not damage the engine, so i am in a wait and see when the fix happens.

I heard the same

 

[aggiegrad05]

There was zero mention of it in the paperwork I got back from the service provider. I should scan it myself and see what shows up on my OBD fusion thing.

I just talked to my dealer and they did not push any new software to mine when it was in. They did my cam phasers the last week of June, and the update didn't come out until 7/15, so that's not it.

In any case, I'm scheduled to drop it off next Thursday to figure it out.

 

[pikuptruk]

Hello, new to the group here. I was searching online for answers to this specific problem, when I came across this thread. I am curious, has anyone actually lost their liming chain to this issue or experienced worse problems down the road?

 

[Bmac1955]

My thought is if you experience phaser rattle on start up...........time to have them replaced. And don't let anyone tell you differently.

 

[pikuptruk]

So far, everyone I’ve talked to that’s had it done, had it come right back at 20k…

 

[Bmac1955]

Perthaps that may be the case to have them replaced a second time. Ford engineering has designed new phasers for a replacement. Frequent oil changes sre a must. I do every 4k.

 

[pikuptruk]

On a Facebook page I follow, there are several people who have replaced them 3 times. Each going out every 20k. So I am hesitant…

 

[apex96]

On a Facebook page I follow, there are several people who have replaced them 3 times. Each going out every 20k. So I am hesitant…

They may have had them replaced with original type which was a faulty design. The newer design seems to be holding up. I had mine replaced in late 21 and have over 30,000 miles on them now with no issues so far.

 

[pikuptruk]

You’re the first person I’ve communicated with that hasn’t had issues after replacing them. So far, everyone I’ve had the chance to talk to about this has had their noise come back after 20k, the latest being in 2021. According to him, the new phasers are the newer design and they are still failing. Hence why ford won’t back it with a solid warranty or anything. They’re not standing behind the new phasers. It’s understood that it’s not a cam phaser design failure as much as it is a, lubrication issue. At 6am when it’s 20 degrees outside, I can alleviate the noise by holding the brake and gas while I start the expy. Let it roll over a couple times before allowing it to start. The noise doesn’t present itself. The understanding is that by doing this, you provide oil to the phasers before they actually spool up to operating speed, thus relieving whatever tension, friction etc that it experiences during normal start up. I hope yours hold up. You’ll be the first person that I’ve talked to that had long term success with it.

 

[Soliyou]

You’re the first person I’ve communicated with that hasn’t had issues after replacing them. So far, everyone I’ve had the chance to talk to about this has had their noise come back after 20k, the latest being in 2021. According to him, the new phasers are the newer design and they are still failing. Hence why ford won’t back it with a solid warranty or anything. They’re not standing behind the new phasers. It’s understood that it’s not a cam phaser design failure as much as it is a, lubrication issue. At 6am when it’s 20 degrees outside, I can alleviate the noise by holding the brake and gas while I start the expy. Let it roll over a couple times before allowing it to start. The noise doesn’t present itself. The understanding is that by doing this, you provide oil to the phasers before they actually spool up to operating speed, thus relieving whatever tension, friction etc that it experiences during normal start up. I hope yours hold up. You’ll be the first person that I’ve talked to that had long term success with it.

The brake and gas routine fills the phasers with oil so that they don’t rattle. However, they are still damaged.

The reason they get damaged is that there is a lubrication issue in the head. Ford modified the heads to correct this problem in 2021. This issue was discussed on the forum with some pictures but I couldn’t find the thread.

 

[BMW2FORD]

I think the jury is still out on this but check this video. The new phasers really do look to be top notch like what most car companies have been using for many years. Also keep in mind they’ve updated them 3 or more times so a lot of people got the old ones and these only came out around 6 months ago. I’m at 75k and on my 4th set with the newest installed and so far no start up cold noise but now I have a hot start singular tap noise that started at that time I’m still trying to figure out. The 21 and later engines do have a 4 bolt retaining cap at the front of the head which houses the phaser solenoids versus the older cars with a 3 but no one has confirmed the internal oil supply passages are larger, oil pump bigger or anything more. Of course 4 bolts is better and maybe some cars leaked but I don’t think anyone knows much more why that change was made. Looking at the quality of the old phasers that were stamped steel, nothing would last with that type design.

ECOBOOST CAM PHASERS. OLD VS NEW. HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE.

DISSASSEMBLY AND INSPECTION OF FORD'S ORIGINAL & NEW VERSION CAMSHAFT VCT UNITS.

youtu.be

 

[positivemojo]

Hello, new to the group here. I was searching online for answers to this specific problem, when I came across this thread. I am curious, has anyone actually lost their liming chain to this issue or experienced worse problems down the road?

It would be difficult for the timing chain to come off the gears but it is possible. I would think the engine noise and performance would be significant prior to that event.

 

[positivemojo]

So far, everyone I’ve talked to that’s had it done, had it come right back at 20k…

I haven't. I used Ford OEM parts. Cost a little more but great quality.

 

[Jon2099]

I know Ford's official position is that this doesn't lead to any other issues or lead to other damage to the engine, and I think in the time-frame that Ford's most interested in (how long can we get them to wait while we get parts in and a slot scheduled for them without needing to provide a rental) there won't likely be any damage. I also think it's unlikely to break the timing chain or have it come off. Keep in mind that as long as the tensioners are keeping the correct pressure on the chain then the part making the noise is the center part of the VVT gear. The outside, meaning everything the timing chain touches continues to move as normal, in total sync with the crankshaft. The center part of the VVT gear, though is getting slammed back and forth and your cam shaft is moving with it, meaning the valve timing will be off and will look nothing like what the computer is commanding while the clatter takes place. Eventually some of these engines with bad phasers will develop a warm-idle knock, apparently meaning at low engine speed (low oil pressure) a little bit of uncommanded movement of the VVT system is occurring, which means the computer wants something that the mechanics of the engine can't deliver. At that point you can get codes thrown related to timing. I would think also that if you go a long time that extra movement in the VVT sprocket will cause more wear there and make the components in the VVT sprocket fit more loosely. This will allow more oil to escape the VVT unit and make it harder for the delivered timing to match the commanded timing.
My personal experience, I lived with my phases for probably 3 months after the startup clatter got pretty bad while waiting on parts, and the warm idle knock became more noticeable and I eventually got a check engine light--strange, it said lean bank 2. That's when I fixed the phasers. All sounds including the warm-idle knock went away, and the engine code never came back. Short answer, I think eventually you'll have drivability issues in addition to a noisy engine if you let it go for too long unless you're very lucky. Of course, every failure may be a little different, and while I got a few noisy months someone else might get a noisy year.

 

[5280tunage]

It may take 10 years but maybe, juts maybe someone in capital hill will see this for what it is and hold Ford accountable for a bad design that has left many without vehicles, with lots of issues, and some with hefty repair bills. I get it, most of us won't even have these in 10 years, but Jeep (and for those of you that don't know, I love my Jeeps) is getting taken to the cleaners over the death wobble stuff. I think that started in 2012. I personally experienced death wobble several times in my lifted '98 JZ. WAS NOT FUN!

I just refer back to the notice sent to everyone too, kind of like hey, as a good will gesture for buying a $60-85K vehicle, we'll repair this known design flaw once for you, then you're kind of hosed.