09 3v power loss "cured" with 5w40

[max78]

Well I found something curious. . . .

We have been fighting some inconsistent surging and power loss issues. We are sitting at 220k miles and I thought it was so many other things.

Backstory. Purchased at 160k miles, ran the recommended 20w for the first few oil changes. Did a Melling timing set (no phasers or solenoids) came with cast iron ratcheting tensioners. Did Melling high-flow oil pump while I was in there. Ran 20w afterwards. Ran fantastic till about 200k then power started dropping. Switched to 30w and power was better.. Seemed like a trans issue though. Changed all the fluid but no change. Messed around with things here and there till 220k. Mpg has been dropping and sits around 12mpg at best.

I dropped in some Lucas oil stabilizer thats as thick as honey and it ran night and day better. . . Thats not good.

Did an oil change with 5w40 and its like a whole new truck. . . Power is back and we are sitting at 16mpg. Transmission shifting wierdness has been "fixed" as well. I'm guessing the engine power consistency has helped in that regards but who knows.

I fear that we might have a worn engine and the thicker oil is helping keep the phasers working as intended due to the higher pressure. Next I'm going to test the thrust bearing. . .

Anything else i should look at while I'm under the truck?

 

[Vdubnick]

following

 

[Trainmaster]

Wouldn't anything making the phasers function erratically set a code?

You say the power loss is "inconsistant"? Probably not a bad idea to do a compression test to see the state of that motor. And maybe check the temperature of the catalytic converters to see if you have some type of clogging.

 

[vinbonifacio]

Following....I recently purchased a 2010 EL, with 204k miles and I have not had to change oil since it looks clear and new from the dipstick. I forgot to ask previous owner what type of oil it has been using. The truck runs strong and I am afraid now that if I change the oil to recommended viscosity 5w20 it will lose power???

 

[rollinstone]

FordTechMakuloco recommends 5W-30 for this gen. I’ve been running 5W-20 up to 77000 with no loss of power or mileage so far. Oil gets changed on schedule.

 

[max78]

Wouldn't anything making the phasers function erratically set a code?

You say the power loss is "inconsistant"? Probably not a bad idea to do a compression test to see the state of that motor. And maybe check the temperature of the catalytic converters to see if you have some type of clogging.

I would think that a phaser not working correctly would set a code, and looking at Forscan the error rate seemed to be within an acceptable rage according to FordTechMakuloco. But I have read several instances of people experiencing phaser issues zero fault codes so its not always foolproof (getting codes that is). My phasers are also original.

With the thinner oil under full throttle it would surge, almost felt like the transmission was slipping and catching. With the thinner oil it ran great when cold, but when it warmed up it turned into a dog and surge. Now with the 5w40 it has great power at all time.

I will add a compression test to the list and check the cats but considering I have fantastic power when cold I don't think its an exhaust restriction.

Following....I recently purchased a 2010 EL, with 204k miles and I have not had to change oil since it looks clear and new from the dipstick. I forgot to ask previous owner what type of oil it has been using. The truck runs strong and I am afraid now that if I change the oil to recommended viscosity 5w20 it will lose power???

Use the recommended oil. Thicker oil does not give you more power that's why I put "cured" in parenthesis because its not a fix.

I only did this because I have issues and I'm trying things to narrow it down to a specific issue. I put thicker oil in there to help me with diagnostics. My thought process is if the thicker oil allows for better operation then there could be an issue in the oiling system somewhere. I plan on checking the harmonic balancer for in and out play, that will tell me if I have an issue with the thrust washer. I will also check the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge at the sensor location because the dash gauge is actually just a switch, it doesn't tell you pressure.

FordTechMakuloco recommends 5W-30 for this gen. I’ve been running 5W-20 up to 77000 with no loss of power or mileage so far. Oil gets changed on schedule.

Ya, I have watched several of his videos. With 77k miles on your truck I would say its probably in much better condition than mine. We purchased this at 160K miles from a dealer that's known to sell government vehicles. We have zero maintenance history before our time and now we are sitting at 220K.


I will be sure to update the thread when I do more digging, but I haven't had the time lately.

 

[max78]

A Little bit of an update.

I replaced the trans pan gasket as well as the transmission bulkhead piece and that seemed to solve all of my leaking issues. . . That was causing my fluid level to go low in the trans and then it would start to shift slowly and jerky. After getting it buttoned all back up with the proper amount of fluid its much better. Its still down on power when warm so I will look more into it.

I did not check anything on the engine side of things yet as I didn't have time. I will still get to that but life has been busy.

 

[max78]

Another update.

So the low power issues are still there, and its now starting to get intermittent. Sometimes is super quick, sometimes it acts like its pulling 10k trailer. You can feel it gain power and lose power like something is cutting timing when accelerating. I verified that timing is good and there are not VCT errors so either the trans, or the fuel pump. With the pump being loud and seemingly unphappy its first on the list to be replaced. The fuel pump was very noisy a few weeks ago so I finally ordered a Motorcraft replacement a week and a half ago and Lakeland finally got around to shipping it. . . .

Hopfully I will be installing it this next weekend.

 

[Franklin Jones]

Look, it's a goofy question here, but just to make sure -

Did you check the simple stuff?
* Spark Plugs replaced?
* Air Filter clean?
* Throttle Body clean?
* Fuel Injectors clean?
* MAF sensor clean?

I've had lazy injectors (not in my ford) that ran fine at idle, but couldn't keep up when I went WOT. A couple bottles of injector cleaner helped, but didn't cure it until i replaced the injectors.

At 220k, you're definitely due for new plugs and probably due for new injectors too. Could be cheaper and easier than timing kits and transmissions.

 

[max78]

Look, it's a goofy question here, but just to make sure -

Did you check the simple stuff?
* Spark Plugs replaced?
* Air Filter clean?
* Throttle Body clean?
* Fuel Injectors clean?
* MAF sensor clean?

I've had lazy injectors (not in my ford) that ran fine at idle, but couldn't keep up when I went WOT. A couple bottles of injector cleaner helped, but didn't cure it until i replaced the injectors.

At 220k, you're definitely due for new plugs and probably due for new injectors too. Could be cheaper and easier than timing kits and transmissions.

Thank you for the suggestions. The answer is yes to most of those things.

New plugs were installed not long ago (10k miles)
Air filter gets changed every oil change (we live in the desert)
Cleaned the throttle body as well as MAF when I did plugs not too long ago.


I had my father-in-law run a fuel treatment on the vehicle at the BMW dealership he works at. This is not dumping a bottle into the gas tank, this connects up to the fuel rails to run a super concentrated cleaner you don't want to put through the rest of the system from what he says. But they could still need some cleaning probably.

Timing kit was already done, but the phasors and solenoids are original. Engine is whisper quiet and you can hear the injectors clicking away its so quiet. I did just find out I have a couple broken studs and a slight leak on one side of the exhaust manifold.


I replaced the noisy fuel pump assembly as well as fuel filter Sunday, Pump is significantly quieter and power seems to be back up to what it was at when I bought it. I dont trust that its fixed or anything because the truck has its days where it goes from great, to bad. It now has the power to peel out, which was never the case before so I'm hopeful. . Hopefully this is not a temporary thing and it continues to preform but only time will tell. I will keep this thread posted.

Edit:
Other things that were done in the last 20K miles
New motorcraft fuel filter
New Motorcraft upstream O2 sensors (the ones responsible for AFR),
new front and rear brake pads and pins (polished and greased)
parking brake adjusted (never used anyways)
All new rubber brake lines
New trans pan gasket and bulkhead to fix leak