2015 Road Test

[GaryH2]

For those that have access or subscription to Car and Driver, they road tested the new Expy with the 3.5L ecoboost. To quote: "Rated at 365 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque, the twin turbo makes mincemeat out of the outgoing models 5.4 liter V8 and its 310 hp and 365 lb-ft of grunt." Peak torque is reportedly at 2500 rpm which is lower than the 5.4L. 0-60 is estimated at 6.3 to 6.8 seconds, so says C&D.

Not too shabby right out of the box!

 

[RI-Matt]

2015 Ford Expedition 3.5-liter V-6 EcoBoost First Drive – Review – Car and Driver



Matt

 

[BIG GREEN FORD]

I think am in love!!! That's a nice expy. 55 horse power over the v8 5.4???!!;! NICE

 

[Paul2003]

Nice engine but I would prefer the 5.0 V8.

 

[justin8776]

Boosted? Sign me up.

 

[DRS1]

Nice engine but I would prefer the 5.0 V8.

^^ +1. A 400hp and 440 and 410ft-lb 5.0 version. Or direct injected at 500hp x 470... Would he cheaper to put in GDI 5.0 or 6.2 that had deactivation than the sputtering tuner TT version of V6. As good or better mileage than any TT millennial fade TT V6.

Who is running Ford? Old guys who want to woo over the youth? The youth will clamber for a real GDI V8, its sound, power and mileage once they get hooked. Since the flathead V8 all youth get away from sputtering 4s and 6s to the real man V8.

Having fun here at the expense of millennial and older metrosexual powder puff who are ruining just about this whole country.

 

[Paul2003]

^^ +1. A 400hp and 440 and 410ft-lb 5.0 version. Or direct injected at 500hp x 470... Would he cheaper to put in GDI 5.0 or 6.2 that had deactivation than the sputtering tuner TT version of V6. As good or better mileage than any TT millennial fade TT V6.

Who is running Ford? Old guys who want to woo over the youth? The youth will clamber for a real GDI V8, its sound, power and mileage once they get hooked. Since the flathead V8 all youth get away from sputtering 4s and 6s to the real man V8.

Having fun here at the expense of millennial and older metrosexual powder puff who are ruining just about this whole country.

I was just worried about the long term durability of a small V6 running high levels of boost while towing a heavy trailer. All for little or no advantage in fuel economy.

But yeah, V8's do sound better.

 

[toms89]

For the die hard V8 fan nothing else obviously will do. Even if it is faster, more powerful, and gets better mileage. Just the thought of 2 less cylinders / less displacement sounds too anemic so it must be less powerful.

I am a hot rodder at heart. I had a supercharged stang, now a roots blown expy, and currently have an ecoboost taurus sho as well as a variety of other vehicles through the years. I have actually raced them all as well so I can appreciate the benefits of each. Of course there is no replacement for displacement assuming they both have similar flowing 4 valve heads, high compression, direct injection, and boost but otherwise the smaller boosted engine will make much better torque down low in the rpms. Even if they had the same rated power the boosted engine will make it at lower rpms vs the naturally aspirated version. For anyone who thinks the ecoboost is a high rpm motor, yes it while yes it can run some higher rpms due to the 4 valve nature of the motor, that is not its forte. The twin turbos make mega torque very low in the rpm band and that is what becomes most noticable while driving. Yes ford could make what would be equivalent to an ecoboost v8 with far more power but pretty sure that is not going to happen.

Yes the V6 will never have the rumble of a V8 but it does have significant grunt when you get on it. But I actually appreciate how quite it is in everyday driving and effortlessly it accelerates.

As far as reliability Ford has done extensive testing on this engine as they have been obviously banking on it. Then how many turbo diesels are out there and does the boost adversely effect the mileage they are getting out of those engines?

The turbo engines of today are by far not the same as the 80's when turbos combined with electronic fuel injection were first introduced. Have had 25 years or more to improve... Much more reliable and very little turbo lag.

My favorite vehicles to watch at the track are the turbo vehicles. Turbo stangs or lightnings to be specific... Yes most are V8's even of the larger displacement variety. Once they are able to hook up the power these turbo beast put out they are unbelievable.

Change can be difficult to accept but it happens never the less.

Just my thoughts.....

 

[toms89]

I think am in love!!! That's a nice expy. 55 horse power over the v8 5.4???!!;! NICE

You would find the hp increase is insignificant compared to the torque curve the twin turbo puts out. The hp numbers them self really do not paint an accurate picture of what to expect.

 

[Paul2003]

There's no question about getting a lot of power out of turbo motor or that they are a lot better then turbos of the 80's. However an engine that has a lot of boost is under a lot more stress then one that isn't boosted. There's no way around that.

Diesels deal with it by having very heavy blocks. The new 3.0 diesel in the Dodge Ram weighs more then the 5.7 Hemi for example.


I love the idea of turbos for performance but not for fuel economy. Putting a small boosted engine in a heavy truck like the Expedition just means you will need the boost up most of the time just to deal with the weight and drag of the truck. That removes the mileage advantage and wears the engine faster.

I'd buy a V6 Ecoboost in a Flex but not in an Expedition. Right tool for the right job.

 

[GaryH2]

^^ +1. A 400hp and 440 and 410ft-lb 5.0 version. Or direct injected at 500hp x 470... Would he cheaper to put in GDI 5.0 or 6.2 that had deactivation than the sputtering tuner TT version of V6. As good or better mileage than any TT millennial fade TT V6.

Who is running Ford? Old guys who want to woo over the youth? The youth will clamber for a real GDI V8, its sound, power and mileage once they get hooked. Since the flathead V8 all youth get away from sputtering 4s and 6s to the real man V8.

Having fun here at the expense of millennial and older metrosexual powder puff who are ruining just about this whole country.

CAFE regulations are a part of life and all manufacturers are going to be looking for every MPG they can get.

A n/a 5.0 wouldn't get the mileage and probably not have the flat torque peak that the 3.5L does.

Besides, boost is addictive.

 

[JUST4FUN]

I don't see the Expedition with the same 3.5 ecoboost
as the f150 getting a very little better mileage than it is now .My f150 3.5 now is 15 MPG city the 5.4 expedition 12.5 city both 3.55 gear and I m light on the foot. now add 1000 LBS to the 3.5TT ill bet it will be around 13 -13.5MPG stretch 14 .

 

[BIG GREEN FORD]

I don't see the Expedition with the same 3.5 ecoboost
as the f150 getting a very little better mileage than it is now .My f150 3.5 now is 15 MPG city the 5.4 expedition 12.5 city both 3.55 gear and I m light on the foot. now add 1000 LBS to the 3.5TT ill bet it will be around 13 -13.5MPG stretch 14 .

I agree with you the whole way

 

[DRS1]

CAFE regulations are a part of life and all manufacturers are going to be looking for every MPG they can get.



A n/a 5.0 wouldn't get the mileage and probably not have the flat torque peak that the 3.5L does.



Besides, boost is addictive.

Direct injection added to the Ford V8 family would add torque and get better mileage than the TTV6.

Too many youngster into the fad of the sputtering tuner designs of T4 and TT6. And they have infested the car companies engineering and marketing groups. Too bad really.

As a former/current owner of many turbo engined vehicles, and one who appreciates the engineering in the 3.5TT, their modular V8 with all the modern tech is the better choice. Too bad Ford leaves all the advanced tech out of the modular V8. The TRV6 with all its plumbing and add one weighs as much too.

 

[toms89]

Lot of speculating and could have / should have going on.

 

[DRS1]

Not much speculation as the TTV6 has been in F150 for some time. Real world reports are the same mileage at a 5.0, and worse if the foot is mashed. It has proven to be durable to date. This will be motor amp'd a bit to 380hp and mid 400s in torque for 2015 version.

Point is, a direct injected and modernized version of the 5.0 is a less complicated, no heavier, and higher mileage alternative to the TTV6. And lower cost to produce and maintain.

Today with the Feds ridiculous low requirements for "emissions" including CO2, current flavor of the day designs lean towards turbos. But this is a red herring for meeting the standards.

I own a GDI TAU V8 version of the Genesis. That motor is the best I have ever had in a car. 32mpg plus at under 80 mph, amazing smoothness and power. Will use a SHO to wipe the floor. I know... As a multi decade Ford fan, I looked carefully at the SHO and even the same version equipped MKS. The Genny as a car, let alone the engine is light years ahead.

GM has proved in their trucks that GDI on a rework of old pushrods get the same mileage and power as the TTV6. Same for the Hemi on the Ram. And the Rams are not GDI. The Ram non GDI V6 without turbos is within 60hp of the Ford and gets up to real world mileage of 29+. Sure, not the same torque.

The new Corvette with the old pushrods design updated with GDI pushes huge horsepower and still runs in the 34mpg on highway.

Back to Ford which has better designs than GM or Ram... The 5.0 and 6.2 with refresh using tech like the TAU V8 in the Genesis, would blow away performance and reliability of the TTV6, lower cost, and as good or better mileage.


I am not against turbos since I own also for my business use Ford F350 King Ranch 6.7, and late gen 6.0 in F250. They are amazing. Diesels do so well will turbos. And this also proves a point. The 6.4 and 6.7 wipe the floor with the 6.0 in power, and fuel economy. Bigger is better... The rice burner "tuners" had invaded Navistar/Ford and created the 6.0. Too bad lessons have not been learned at Ford with the gas guys.

Track record shows the 3.5TT as a amazing achievement. That does not mean it is what should be used moving forward.

 

[toms89]

Not much speculation as the TTV6 has been in F150 for some time. Real world reports are the same mileage at a 5.0, and worse if the foot is mashed. It has proven to be durable to date. This will be motor amp'd a bit to 380hp and mid 400s in torque for 2015 version.

I have seen reports both ways. Of course all the press go towards those not doing well. Seen many claim great mileage with the 3.5 and many have not. The issue may be that the 3.5 makes much more power / torque down low so simply keeping it at low rpm is no guarantee the mileage is going to be good. Have to practice being more conservative with your right foot if mileage is your goal with twin turbos.

Point is, a direct injected and modernized version of the 5.0 is a less complicated, no heavier, and higher mileage alternative to the TTV6. And lower cost to produce and maintain.

Speculation....

Today with the Feds ridiculous low requirements for "emissions" including CO2, current flavor of the day designs lean towards turbos. But this is a red herring for meeting the standards.

I own a GDI TAU V8 version of the Genesis. That motor is the best I have ever had in a car. 32mpg plus at under 80 mph, amazing smoothness and power. Will use a SHO to wipe the floor. I know... As a multi decade Ford fan, I looked carefully at the SHO and even the same version equipped MKS. The Genny as a car, let alone the engine is light years ahead.

Can't comment whether your Genesis would wipe the floor with with my Sho because I have not seen your 1/4 times posted. My bone stock times are posted on this site. Not sure why you consider the motor light years ahead.... guess I must take your word for it.

GM has proved in their trucks that GDI on a rework of old pushrods get the same mileage and power as the TTV6. Same for the Hemi on the Ram. And the Rams are not GDI. The Ram non GDI V6 without turbos is within 60hp of the Ford and gets up to real world mileage of 29+. Sure, not the same torque.

Torque is the number one reason from my point of view why ford chose to go with the 3.5 ecoboost. It simply out tows most vehicles in its class. Sure the larger V8's can make some power but they have to rev higher to do so. The ecoboost is somewhat of a compromise between typical gas v8's and turbo diesels. The ecoboost also out sells all the others in the F150 from what I understand so.....

The new Corvette with the old pushrods design updated with GDI pushes huge horsepower and still runs in the 34mpg on highway.

I am pretty sure corvettes have gotten in the 30's hwy with out gdi. Light weight aerodynamic car with large overdrive ratio...

Back to Ford which has better designs than GM or Ram... The 5.0 and 6.2 with refresh using tech like the TAU V8 in the Genesis, would blow away performance and reliability of the TTV6, lower cost, and as good or better mileage.

Speculation....

I am not against turbos since I own also for my business use Ford F350 King Ranch 6.7, and late gen 6.0 in F250. They are amazing. Diesels do so well will turbos. And this also proves a point. The 6.4 and 6.7 wipe the floor with the 6.0 in power, and fuel economy. Bigger is better... The rice burner "tuners" had invaded Navistar/Ford and created the 6.0. Too bad lessons have not been learned at Ford with the gas guys.

Track record shows the 3.5TT as a amazing achievement. That does not mean it is what should be used moving forward.

I believe there is a lot more in the 3.5TT. Simple math tells me that if the N.A. 3.5 can make 288 hp that the 350 it puts out in turbo form is somewhat "detuned". Maybe its because they design it to run on 87 octane... I really do not know. It's possibly just so they know it can safely run long term with zero issues but then I am speculating..

In the end I "feel" it is really designed as an alternative to the turbo diesel as a low rpm high torque "truck motor" ideal for towing. In that respect it makes perfect sense as to why they chose to go with it.

I would have preferred the option of a V8 but if I was in the market for a new expedition I would have no issue going with the 3.5 TT direct injected 4 valve motor.

http://www.full-race.com/articles/what-is-ecoboost.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq05bNUaBnU

 

[metaldrgn]

You would find the hp increase is insignificant compared to the torque curve the twin turbo puts out. The hp numbers them self really do not paint an accurate picture of what to expect.

I don't agree. HP is most important because it's a measurement of work over time whereas torque is just force at a given time. You will always accelerate faster if you keep your RPMs in the HP band rather than the torque band just for this reason.

The cam is the reason the torque peaks so low. If you installed a cam that increased your hp/torque peak RPMs and the intake/exhaust could flow respectively, you should be able to get quite a bit more power.

 

[metaldrgn]

Speaking of power/fuel efficiency, they need to also offer a hybrid version to get even better MPG since that's still a big problems for these large, heavy vehicles. The 2013 Tahoe is rated at 21MPG combined with 332HP and the 2014 F150, since I'm not seeing ratings for the expedition, is 18MPG with 365HP. That's 16.7% higher combined MPG and the Tahoe is using a 6L V8 and it makes 332HP. I like hybrid motors because electrical power is way more efficient than combustion and they can actually recover some power from deceleration.

 

[The eXpedition]

For your information, BorgWarner, the 4WD system manufacturer of the expedition is the one who manufactured the twin turbochargers for the new ecoboost engine as well.