Hey everyone! Travel trailer question..

[Greg Parker]

With six of them total and all the stuff that kids would have???

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If you can't extend your living area to the outdoors, I have to ask why you're RV'ing in the first place. I had a manger a couple of years ago ...she, her husband, 17 year-old youngest child and THREE dogs did 2 full years RV'ing around in a relatively tiny 20' trailer (with one pop-out). Their strategy was that wherever they went, they planned on setting-up camp for at least 4 weeks (sometimes 6). They had the screen tent like I mentioned and their youngest son preferred sleeping in a tent outside.

Make no mistake ...if I had to LIVE in a camper with my wife, 4 kids and 2 dogs ...I'd want a 38' 5th wheel. But the world of RV'ing (glamping) is littered with options and flexibility. Aside from thinking about upgrading my camper (to a Lance 2445), I'm also thinking about buying 30-40 acres and having a $9K steel building put on it (pre-plumbed for a kitchen and large bathroom). We'd keep the RV in 1/3rd of the space (40x50 or 40x60) and start building-out more amenities.

I mean heck ...my grandparents toured the entire country (sometimes with us grandkids) in an old '72 Ford F250 with a pretty tiny Born Free pick-up bed camper. Loved every minute of it. It all boils down to attitude, duration of stay, and a willingness to have some of your amenities outside. Personally, when camping / glamping, I'm pretty much only inside the camper if it's over 95F outside, I need to #2 / #3, or I need to go to bed. My kids are a little "softer" than that, but they've come a long way and I'm still working on 'em (my oldest likes to sleep in an enclosed hammock I string-up for him).

This thread actually turned me on to the Lance brand. I hadn't looked at any of their options. The 2455 fits what we need weight wise but obviously we'd like something a little longer with a dedicated couch.

The only problem in finding a trailer that would work for us was the hitch weight. The hitch weight puts us over max payload if it goes over 600lbs and any of the dedicated bunks are like 700 to 750 if not more. From what I understand if we're over payload even a little it could lead to insurance claim problems and even worse I dont want to endanger anyone, least of all my family.

Believe me, if I didn't have to eat 10k by trading in this Expedition, we would be looking at a 5th wheel and a new truck. (We bought this last year before the full time idea came around) Love the Expedition, just wish it had a bit more payload.

Brad ... I really don't think you need to worry about getting all the way up to 800# tongue-weight. Between a well-setup WDH and maybe those better tires I mentioned, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute on that Lance 2455. Nice rig. There are lighter ...and at the same time bigger options; however, I'm really leaning towards upgrading to the Lance because I know I could easily get 20+ years of relatively trouble-free use (kinda like they USE TO make campers).

The other thing ...and I don't know if I mentioned it here, or it was on a different thread ...but there is a very high-end WDH from a company called "ProPride" (the "3P Hitch") that my buddy has and he has nothing but great things to say about it. That bugger is $2400-$2900 depending on your tongue weight, but from what he tells me, his 600# tongue weight feels like nothing on his Durango. Personally, I opted to just get the "cheap" Husky ...which still seems great to me ...but if I pull the trigger on a $40-$50K Lance, I'll probably get one just for the added amount of towing stability and comfort.

Heck...I might have a very slightly used Husky TS (for 800-1000# tongue weight) for sale in the next 45 days!

 

[FeelsBradMan]

Greg,

I've never towed, so the feeling of 600 lbs on the hitch isn't my worry. (Maybe it should be?) My worry is that it puts me over payload on my vehicle if I go over 600. Most trailers I've found that have a separate bunk room have 750ish (Even if the trailer dry weight is 6k or less)tongue weight listed. There is a Passport292bh that has a four bed bunk room that would be perfectly sized. However, the hitch weight puts me over.

 

[ETC13]

You might want to back up the cart and do a week or two trip with a rental trailer to really get the feel of towing and what you are getting into.

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[Greg Parker]

Greg,

I've never towed, so the feeling of 600 lbs on the hitch isn't my worry. (Maybe it should be?) My worry is that it puts me over payload on my vehicle if I go over 600. Most trailers I've found that have a separate bunk room have 750ish (Even if the trailer dry weight is 6k or less)tongue weight listed. There is a Passport292bh that has a four bed bunk room that would be perfectly sized. However, the hitch weight puts me over.

I think you have to (at least partially) worry less about tongue-weight and more about staying somewhere shy of 90% towing capacity (I prefer 75% max). Tongue-weight issues can be mitigated ....by having a full tank of fresh water (usually that's behind the axles), or loading the bulkier / heavier items just behind the axles. The loads published on the doorjamb sticker are less of a concern for me (with an adequate WDH) than the overall GVWR of the trailer.

I appreciate you're trying to stay within "spec" on everything ...just keep in mind that I believe the Expy with HD trailering package would probably easily tow 10K pounds (with a 900-1000# tongue weight. I mean, the F150 fully outfitted has a tow-rating of over 13,000# on a bumper receiver. I think those extreme numbers would probably require 60mph max speeds and snail's crawl uphill speeds, but it's capable. Assuming for a moment that you don't upgrade suspension or tires, going 5-10% over the "load rating" of the tires / rear axle is not a "no-go" unless you insist on driving down super rough roads at 70mph+.

So...we established earlier that I also have 6 people (including myself) in my family. If I do some quick math ...we're 200# + 140# + 150# + 120#, + 90#, + 80#. That's just the people ... That uses well over half of my "load capacity" (of 1500#) and there's at least another 500# of dogs and gear on our heaviest trip. Now...if I were to remain super strict, I wouldn't want anything more than about 300# tongue weight. Well...that's a really dang tiny camper. Not gonna happen.

I've said it, but in another "full disclosure" ...I've only towed with my Expy the one time (but have towed something my entire "driver's license life"). This Expedition with my 6200# camper and 620# (unladen) tongue-weight didn't even scoff ...and rear tire pressures remained the same as the fronts. I DID spend a fair bit of time on my WDH install to make sure it was "just right." My 3/4-ton Duramax towed worse and required more adjustments to tow properly (without WDH). My ONLY caveat is that I can be a bit of a speed demon and I learned on my first trip that I MUST slow down on steep grades, or I will eventually burn-up the 10-speed transmission with overheating. My insistence of maintaining 55-65mph up major grades has to go. I have to be willing to sit behind a semi and churn the bugger uphill at 25-35mph.

Of course, there's not an RV salesman in existence that will tell you "too big" ....but I respect the heck outta your rigid adherence to the specs. But unless you have 300# children sitting in the back row ...or you're already going to majorly overload the cabin with passengers and gear ...I think you can find your way thru this to a trailer that has as much as say ...a 725# tongue weight. And with the right WDH ...you'll know it.

 

[Greg Parker]

You might want to back up the cart and do a week or two trip with a rental trailer to really get the feel of towing and what you are getting into.

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That's certainly not bad advice. Rent something that comes close to desired purchase. My only thought is it seems like it can be tough to rent travel trailers ....mostly Class C motorhomes for rent these days in the RV rental space. Could checkout Craigslist ...I've seen a few private owners willing to rent out their travel trailers.

 

[ETC13]

That's certainly not bad advice. Rent something that comes close to desired purchase. My only thought is it seems like it can be tough to rent travel trailers ....mostly Class C motorhomes for rent these days in the RV rental space. Could checkout Craigslist ...I've seen a few private owners willing to rent out their travel trailers.

Here in TN there are tons of rental travel trailers.

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[AAOO]

I’m overloaded here and she pulled it like a champ. Never saw trans temp over 230 degrees and that was at 100 degree ambient. It’s favorite temp was 223 and bounced between there and 219 at highway speeds. The 230 came on a 0-70 mph run from a stop with the accelerator firewall’d (just because) lol. Did I mention I only averaged 7.5 mpg. Had the ACC set to 70 most of the trip on highways. It worked really well.

It’s my buddy’s rig so I’m using his WDH with sway control. I have a fairly squatty ass and think some coil spring helpers would definitely help.

 

[FeelsBradMan]

How big of a rig is that, Aaoo? Do you know the model and year?

 

[Greg Parker]

I’m overloaded here and she pulled it like a champ. Never saw trans temp over 230 degrees and that was at 100 degree ambient. It’s favorite temp was 223 and bounced between there and 219 at highway speeds. The 230 came on a 0-70 mph run from a stop with the accelerator firewall’d (just because) lol. Did I mention I only averaged 7.5 mpg. Had the ACC set to 70 most of the trip on highways. It worked really well.

It’s my buddy’s rig so I’m using his WDH with sway control. I have a fairly squatty ass and think some coil spring helpers would definitely help.

AAOO ...depending on how often you're going to tow that (being a buddy's coach), I bet some adjustments could be made to the WDH to reduce your squat. I followed my Husky installation instructions to the "T" and it had me install the chunk that has the ball / goes into the receiver ...1" higher than "level trailer tongue height". I did that AND put sway / WD bars that were overrated for my tongue weight. I only got 1/2" of squat from stock and it pulls like a dream.

How big of a rig is that, Aaoo? Do you know the model and year?

Brad, if I had to guess that thing looks like the equivalent of a 2020 KZ Sportsman 312BHSE

 

[JasonH]

I tow a Forest River T282QBXL, with a GVWR of approximately 7,600 lbs. We use a Husky Centerline with 1,000lb bars. The combination handles well. We usually keep it at 65 or under, unless I'm passing. But I've had it up to 75 for very brief periods. Attached are drop measurements with the hatch, ball, and bars loaded. I had numbers from the scale, but have misplaced them.

 

[JasonH]

I found my last scale ticket. I moved more weight forward after this. It handles very well.

 

[Expedition Dave]

Before the Ex I wanted and F350 diesel in the Tremor version, but don't like the bodystyle of pickups (etc.). And after reading this, really wish they had a 250 series for the Expys...

 

[Greg Parker]

I found my last scale ticket. I moved more weight forward after this. It handles very well.

Jason...nice. That's one of the models on my evaluation list. We'll probably upgrade in the "down season" when prices are a little better (if that ever comes ...seems tow rigs and travel trailers are the new toilet paper these days ).

Before the Ex I wanted and F350 diesel in the Tremor version, but don't like the bodystyle of pickups (etc.). And after reading this, really wish they had a 250 series for the Expys...

Dave...I've absolutely said as much. I decided to switch to a fullsize SUV from my '07 Chevy Duramax (3/4T). On the top of my list was an old Excursion with the 7.3 Powerstroke ...but to find one of those in "drive cross-country" condition was pretty tough, and the nicer ones I found were demanding quite a premium due to their popularity.

I sincerely believe that there is absolutely enough demand for Ford / Chevy / Dodge to build a 3/4T SUV ...maybe even with their fullsize diesel in it. The only thing I would think that's stoppin' them is the EPA / CAFE standards forcing them to produce more and more fuel efficient passenger vehicles. If GM didn't drop the 3/4T option from their fullsize SUVs, it might be what would be in my driveway right now.

 

[duneslider]

Jason...nice. That's one of the models on my evaluation list. We'll probably upgrade in the "down season" when prices are a little better (if that ever comes ...seems tow rigs and travel trailers are the new toilet paper these days ).



Dave...I've absolutely said as much. I decided to switch to a fullsize SUV from my '07 Chevy Duramax (3/4T). On the top of my list was an old Excursion with the 7.3 Powerstroke ...but to find one of those in "drive cross-country" condition was pretty tough, and the nicer ones I found were demanding quite a premium due to their popularity.

I sincerely believe that there is absolutely enough demand for Ford / Chevy / Dodge to build a 3/4T SUV ...maybe even with their fullsize diesel in it. The only thing I would think that's stoppin' them is the EPA / CAFE standards forcing them to produce more and more fuel efficient passenger vehicles. If GM didn't drop the 3/4T option from their fullsize SUVs, it might be what would be in my driveway right now.

I love the expedition but I too would have bought a 3/4T SUV is someone was still making one. I think there is a market for them, or at least something that can handle a little more than the current expedition. Although, with all the complaints of the ride of the current expedition, can you imagine what we would get with a 3/4T version!

 

[wakeboarder]

I sincerely believe that there is absolutely enough demand for Ford / Chevy / Dodge to build a 3/4T SUV ...maybe even with their fullsize diesel in it. The only thing I would think that's stoppin' them is the EPA / CAFE standards forcing them to produce more and more fuel efficient passenger vehicles. If GM didn't drop the 3/4T option from their fullsize SUVs, it might be what would be in my driveway right now.

I thought chevy or GMC still produced the 3/4 ton although only for fleet applications. I could be wrong.

This could be another option.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news...one-ton-duramax-diesel-powered-chevy-suburban

 

[Greg Parker]

I love the expedition but I too would have bought a 3/4T SUV is someone was still making one. I think there is a market for them, or at least something that can handle a little more than the current expedition. Although, with all the complaints of the ride of the current expedition, can you imagine what we would get with a 3/4T version!

Well...it's only got 1800 miles on it, but I find that mine rides like a dream. I fully expect to have to put Bilsteins all the way around it within 4-5 years. The vast majority of these shocks that manufacturers put on aren't more than $10 worth of components. But right now...in comparison to my (sold) 3/4T Silverado, this Expy rides like a Cadillac.

I thought chevy or GMC still produced the 3/4 ton although only for fleet applications. I could be wrong.

This could be another option.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news...one-ton-duramax-diesel-powered-chevy-suburban

I have seen those before. I think there's a couple of different vendors that do these conversions; but holy hell ...for that much money, I'll just get an F450 or F550 Leprechan Class C motorhome! (and tow the Expy behind it )

 

[Expedition Dave]

I seriously looked into the Duraburb. Many things were hard stops for me, as it is NOT emissions--FedGov compliant, hence in any state that checks, a "no-go" and wonder what would happen if pulled over by a DOT cop in any other state or the diesel gas pump...

There is a company that takes F250/350s and mount Excursion bodies to them, and I believe they will pass emissions since it is still the original truck.

Note, none of these options are below $100K, are all used bodies/engines/trans etc., and have not a hint of warranty.

Chevrolet/GMC is building a small diesel now but on the light frame, and no off-road dedicated option for the diesel...

 

[swrmerle]

We have a 2020 Jayco 28BHS. It is 6500# empty, and GVWR is 8500#. Power is not an issue with the 3.5L EB, but we are right on the edge of all the weight numbers. I would love to have a 3/4+ ton truck to pull it with, but would be cramped with 2 adults, 3 kids, and 2 dogs. Plus, we need the 3rd row for all of the other times when we aren't pulling the camper.

 

[Gmas15]

I tow a Coachmen Apex 288BHS. Dry weight around 5k, fully loaded about 6500lbs. The expedition tows it effortlessly. Never any concern about temps, even up grades (at least in NH). I use it maybe 5-6 times a year with family of four, but kids bring friends or cousins all the time. We've slept 8 in it many times. Love the camper for long weekends and maybe a week long trip/year.

I'd never full time in it, though. Not enough storage, even for the four of us. Would be hard to do, unless your tolerance for clutter is high, or you have a really minimalist lifestyle. Though the 300BHS has more storage than the 288, and a separate "bedroom" for kids.

 

[Chris Alcala]

I said it already ...but I think it's possible. There are two situations ...I have found some sub-8500 GVWR ultra-lite campers that actually have a completely isolated bunkhouse (from the kitchen / living) and have 4 single-size bunks (one is usually a small convertible, 2-person dinette). Personally, I think I could "glamp" all summer long ...or longer ...if I had that kind of setup, and with the front "master bedroom."

I would bring my 10'x14' screen tent and outdoor kitchen and strategically setup on the KOA / Good Sam's camp spot. Throw-in a good collapsible dog fence, and it would be doable for extended period of time. That's not to say I wouldn't want to also do some dry-camping / boon-docking, but those stays would obviously have to be contained to 5-7 days, depending on fresh water / grey water / black water capacities.

Out of all of the "economy models" that I have looked at, the Forest River Apex 300BHS is quite roomy (but obviously "cheap"). I wish Lance made a 26-28' camper, but I'm in the middle of considering a Lance 2445.

we have a Heartland North Trail 31QBS. 4 bed bunk in back, 33ft long. It is 7000lbs GVWR. I have zero problems pulling with my 2015 4x4 Expy. There is plenty of engine to cruise 75mph on the flat Texas hwys, and to easily maintain 60-65 in the Texas Hill Country.

It has a rated tongue weight of 675 but it is easily more than that. I have WD bars rated at 1200 lbs and I get very little squat from the trailer. I know the tire and axle setup is made to handle more that the stated 7000 GVWR and we routinely have it loaded to about 8000 lbs and can still drive as stated above.

it has trailer brakes that are rarely used as the tow/haul mode engine braking is nearly adequate on its own to bring it to a gentle stop without stressing the Expy brakes.

for short distances I have pulled a friends bumper pull that is 38’ long and has a 9000 GVWR. This is where it gets a little cumbersome for the engine, but I was still able to maintain 65mph on flats in 5th (6 speed) gear getting about 7mpg.

I would think the newer EcoBoost could handle anything within spec you can throw at it.