Intermittent No-Crank Condition

[sjwelds]

Hey gang,

I posted in another thread about this, thinking I might have it fixed, but looks like I still have an issue.

So last night we were in town, filled up with gas, went to start, and had no crank. Messed with it a bit and she fired up like usual. Thought it was maybe a bad connection at the battery, so cleaned everything up real good. Thought it was fixed.

Today, still have problems. Not sure what to check next. Where is the starter solenoid on these things?

Oh yeah, 08 Expedition Eddie Bauer 4x4 165k.

 

[stamp11127]

Going from memory on this. Passenger kick panel in the sjb.

 

[sjwelds]

I hear a click from the passenger side somewhere. Does that mean the relay is working?

My next step is to check connections at the starter.

It seems to happen more frequently when the vehicle has sat for an hour or more...wonder if it's some connection that is good when the engine is warm and not so good when things have cooled off a little.

I suck at electrical problems.

 

[sjwelds]

Couple of things that come to mind:

I just had it serviced yesterday at my local Ford dealer. Is there anything by the oil filter or drain plug, that they may have knocked loose, that would cause a no-crank condition? I also rotated the tires, myself, as well as messed with the ambient air temperature sensor at the front of the vehicle.
Just going through some things in my mind....

 

[1955moose]

Could be, backtrack is what I've always gave as advice. Look around the areas you and the dealer worked. A plug hanging, or broken/frayed wire maybe. Intermittent issues are the toughest to nail down, due to the intermittent part . As usual it's probably something simple.

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[sjwelds]

Well, looked at it a bit more at lunch. Checked connections at the starter, everything appears to be as it should. tried it several more times, couldn't get it going.

gonna take it to my mechanic tonight. Don't have time or energy to mess with it.

 

[1955moose]

Understand that. Life's too short to chase your tail. The wife and kids and job are more important. Curious what they find, let us know, moose.

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[sjwelds]

Well of course.

Take it to my mechanic and it performs flawlessly. Typical. Just typical.
Intermittent problems are the worst.

 

[Plati]

Sometimes its something so simple too. Got in my Expy this morning, engine running ... could NOT get the wipers to work. It was frozen last night so I HAD to run wipers to clear windshield to drive. Late going to the airport .... WTF. This is crazy!!!

Turns out I remote started it and wipers arent gonna run until I put keys in and turn them, which I somehow missed. Ahhhh

Isnt there a condition with a starter motor where there is a dead spot in some cases? Turn key and starter motor doesnt turn even with power applied correctly?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/666515-starter-hits-dead-spot.html

 

[1955moose]

What's that age old saying, it never hurts when you go to the doctor! Intermittent problems are the worse. It's like theirs a leprechaun sitting on your hood saying, catch me fool! You never will.

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[stamp11127]

Next time it doesn't start whack the starter body with a hammer. If it starts then the starter brushes are dirty from use. Plan a convenient time to r & r it(starter) .

 

[sjwelds]

Thing is, when it doesn't start, there's no sound of trying, clicking or anything else. I laid under the vehicle on Monday while my wife tried to start it, and total silence from the starter. Makes me think it's not getting power at all.....

 

[stamp11127]

Does the 2008 have a fuse box on top of the fan shroud like the 2007's?

 

[sjwelds]

Yes.

 

[1955moose]

When my starter was going out, it just made a single click or light chunk/clunk sound. Tapping it with a hammer as Stamp suggested got it going. Luckily, I picked up a reman new one from Ford. It got so bad within just 2 days from first no start, that I thought I was going to have to tow home. I got one last crank over by tapping at least 6 different times. Theirs a starter solenoid on your passenger side firewall. You also have a solenoid piggybacked on top of your starter like GM's do. It is very possible that one of the 2 is failing. Theirs tests, but the fact that your problems intermittent, you might want to test and or replace the firewall one first. Check the connection on those cables, they come loose sometimes. Also the push on wire from the key switch at the solenoid, be sure it's clean, and a snug fit. Normally we here believe in testing first, but your problem may, or may not show on a continuity test.

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[stamp11127]

Oh man, there are at least 49 failure points on the control side of the starting circuit. Finding it will take time and patience. One failure point is the digital range selector switch that I think is inside the transmission.

How dirty are you willing to get?

I worked on a members 2007 who would come to Atlanta occasionally and had the same starting issue. Since he was traveling, I only had a short amount of time to diagnose it on each trip. Never found where the problem was, he opted to bypass all the razzel dazzel safety features and wire in an old school starting circuit for the times it didn't start. The factory circuit was left in place as the primary and the additional circuit was used when it failed.

 

[sjwelds]

Not very dirty, hence why I took it to my mechanic. LOL

 

[1955moose]

Just 49? I thought that they're were at least 50!

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[sjwelds]

Just another data point, I have tried it in neutral as well, with the same no-crank results.

 

[stamp11127]

If they can't determine what has failed ask them to look up the wiring diagrams in order to jump the DRS in the trans. That would prove the switch faulty if it started.