New to me Expy, already having problems

[1955moose]

Glenn you need to get a handle on if it's a cam sensor or something more serious. Problem is with almost all used car purchases your on your own. Shame you didn't have a mechanic check it out before you bought it. Hope you got it cheap enough. Well you or another mechanic that knows this SUV will hopefully get it figured out.


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[Glenn B]

Did he swap the camshaft or the camshaft position sensor ?

Sensor.

 

[Glenn B]

Glenn you need to get a handle on if it's a cam sensor or something more serious. Problem is with almost all used car purchases your on your own. Shame you didn't have a mechanic check it out before you bought it. Hope you got it cheap enough. Well you or another mechanic that knows this SUV will hopefully get it figured out.

That's part of the problem. The truck was in a town where I used to live, so we had my old mechanic look it over and replace the rear diff. I trusted that he would give it a thorough once-over. Unfortunately he kept having to delay it and push it back, until finally he just did the rear diff and that was it. I drove it home with the ABS light on and a squeak coming from the engine. Was not happy about it, so I have not gone back to him. Instead took it to the local guy I use where I live now, and it hasn't gone much better sad to say.

Glenn

 

[stamp11127]

This isn't an insult, get the Ford Service Manual and read up on how these systems operate. Then you will be able to narrow down what is happening. There are plenty of members on here that will be more than willing to help on the theory.

 

[Glenn B]

This isn't an insult, get the Ford Service Manual and read up on how these systems operate. Then you will be able to narrow down what is happening. There are plenty of members on here that will be more than willing to help on the theory.

Also in the plan. As I said at the start of this thread - I am no mechanic, but I do like to know as much as possible about what I am riding (I have service manuals for my ST-1300) but given the timing and how we kinda need the truck so we can move to a new house next week, I wanted someone who already knew what they were doing to look at it. You can all see how that is working out for me...

I suggested he check the oil pressure, between that and Ford's advice he is replacing two solenoids related to oil pressure near the timing chain. Fingers crossed that it's nailed this time.

I do appreciate the suggestions and support I have received here.

Glenn

 

[pkuchirka]

I had a 2004 F150. I also had those codes come up, and had the cam phasers changed and was then told it was the timing chain. The 3v 5.4l motor usually needs timing chain work anywhere between 200k to 300K kilometers. Allot of people also had these issues with that 3v. I could be wrong I hope I am cause that's costly to fix

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[pkuchirka]

I would also rather spend $10,000 on a used one and get a great vehicle then to spend $70,000 on a new one.

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[pkuchirka]

Also, the longer my f150 ran and warmed it, the truck started shaking, wanted to stall. I really do think you should consider timing chain fix before you spend thousands on repairs you don't need.. I'd be pissed off like I was when mechanics made me do 1500$ of work the say they wanted 1800$ for timing chain. It's hard to find a mechanic you can trust... I love my 2003 expedition with the 2v.

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[theoldwizard1]

Cam phaser problems are pretty common. Check YouTube for some video that describe the symptoms.

 

[Glenn B]

I had a 2004 F150. I also had those codes come up, and had the cam phasers changed and was then told it was the timing chain. The 3v 5.4l motor usually needs timing chain work anywhere between 200k to 300K kilometers. Allot of people also had these issues with that 3v. I could be wrong I hope I am cause that's costly to fix

This is exactly what it's doing. I get some laboring around 40mph, and stalling when stopping. He's trying the cheap repairs first before jumping right into the timing chain. It's only at 188k so with luck I can shove off the timing chain work until later. Fingers crossed.

Glenn

 

[pkuchirka]

Cam phaser problems are pretty common. Check YouTube for some video that describe the symptoms.

I had those changed as well. Didn't help.

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[theoldwizard1]

I found this while "surfing the 'net".

Noise and/or failure of the variable cam timing phasers is a well known issue on the 5.4L V-8. In 2006, Ford issued a technical service bulletin, denoted TSB 06-19-8, to explain the service and repair procedures to deal with the noise.

Typically, worn phasers create a loud and rough idle (also stalling). Often, a knocking noise is heard. In some instances, the noise is not due to wear in the phasers but rather low oil pressure due to cam bearing wear in the cylinder heads. If that is the case, the heads may need to be replaced or machined.

See the TSB for specific instructions but additional reported fixes have included installing a high volume oil pump.

The cam phasers were redesigned a few years later so that problem has gone away but it was pretty common back then. The only way to check for proper oil pressure at idle is to remove the oil pressure sensor and temporally install a gauge. Oil pressure must be read with the engine hot and idling.

I don't think the cam bearing "issue" was that common.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Quickly Diagnose The Most Common Fault on Ford 4.6L & 5.4L 3v Engines

What a bad cam phaser sounds like.

Another not real common valve train issue is worn roller finger follower. A ticking/clicking noise but probably not as loud as the phaser.

If either of these are diagnosed, and especially if the timing chain/tensioner needs replacement, I would have the oil pump replaced also.

 

[Glenn B]

He replaced the solenoids and it didn't change anything. He also promised I would have it this weekend, but forgot to leave the keys in it so I could pick it up. I'm getting it back Monday and taking it to someone who can actually fix it. At this point it has spent more time at the shop than my own driveway.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

This is exactly what it's doing. I get some laboring around 40mph, and stalling when stopping. He's trying the cheap repairs first before jumping right into the timing chain. It's only at 188k so with luck I can shove off the timing chain work until later. Fingers crossed.

Glenn

Glenn, I'm sorry to hear about all of your problems. I just read through the entire thread. Part of the problem is probably Cam Phasers. They are locked at idle by pins operated by the solenoids (that you already had replaced) oil pressure operated the cam phasers and the biggest issue is keeping them lubricated at idle because the oil pump isn't a high pressure pump. Once the engine comes above idle the solenoids pull the pins and then computer determines whether to advance or retard the timing as needed. (this explains why it works better at higher speeds.

I know you aren't going to do the work but here are a series of 4 videos that explains how it works and how to change the cam phasers and timing chain. He is a great teacher and you will really get a good understanding of the cam phasers, how they work and what they do.

My personal opinion is that an engine that has 180,000 miles on it is shot. A lot of people have trucks with 250,000 plus miles on the engine but ultimately you are building a new truck from spare parts to keep them going. It might be a better option to get a new engine or newer engine with a lot less miles and drop it in. I got rid of my 05 with 146,600 miles because the dealer said I would need cam phasers and timing chains in another 20,000 miles. It was ticking at idle and I could tell that it was getting worse. (Plus the body was rusting out really bad and that was one of the major reasons as well.) We do a couple of 1300 mile trips every summer and we just didn't feel comfortable driving it long distances any more.

I hope the videos help. Lots of good information if you really want to see why its a $2,000 job.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My personal opinion is that an engine that has 180,000 miles on it is shot.

I don't know that I would say it was "shot", but if anything under the front engine cover is and, you should replace all the components ! Cam phaser, timing chain, chain guides, tensioners and the oil pump (pay the up charge for a Melling high volume oil pump).

Keep us posted !

 

[Glenn B]

I took it to a Ford dealer this morning. The tech said he has to replace two more solenoids. $650. Ouch. Fingers crossed - I have to get lucky at some point. Dropping a new engine in the thing is at least $5000, and I just don't have that.

Glenn

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

I took it to a Ford dealer this morning. The tech said he has to replace two more solenoids. $650. Ouch. Fingers crossed - I have to get lucky at some point. Dropping a new engine in the thing is at least $5000, and I just don't have that.

Glenn

The parts are about $110 each on rockauto.com and from what I've seen they aren't too difficult to change.

 

[ChrisOIFdoc]

This is exactly what it's doing. I get some laboring around 40mph, and stalling when stopping. He's trying the cheap repairs first before jumping right into the timing chain. It's only at 188k so with luck I can shove off the timing chain work until later. Fingers crossed.

Glenn

Hello Glenn,
I wouldn't waste the money if I were you on this truck. I had an 05 with constant cam phaser issues. Many trips to the dealership to resolve under warranty until I got tired of dealing with it and Ford must have too because they posted a TSB saying it was normal to hear marbles in a tin can coming from the engine at 1200 to 1800 RPM. Then it would stall or rough idle whenever it felt like it. So I did the smart thing after that..I disconnected the right bank to eliminate the phasers...ignored the check engine light...went back to a 1st gen expy...and traded the 05 for an 09 CTS. Save yourself the pain.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Hello Glenn,
I wouldn't waste the money if I were you on this truck. I had an 05 with constant cam phaser issues. Many trips to the dealership to resolve under warranty until I got tired of dealing with it and Ford must have too because they posted a TSB saying it was normal to hear marbles in a tin can coming from the engine at 1200 to 1800 RPM. Then it would stall or rough idle whenever it felt like it. So I did the smart thing after that..I disconnected the right bank to eliminate the phasers...ignored the check engine light...went back to a 1st gen expy...and traded the 05 for an 09 CTS. Save yourself the pain.

Chris, my 05 was going strong at 146,000 miles with a slight tick at idle. I never had the marbles in a can noise. I think your experience was atypical not the norm. There are a lot of 05 guys that have had minimal problems. It sounds like you just got a bad one.