Power foaming a 3.5 ecoboost

[LokiWolf]

2015 has the flawed, direct injection only system.

Wrong. All 15-17 Expeditions have the Gen 1 Motor, with Direct Injection only.

Expeditions did not go to the Gen2 3.5TT until the 18+ Model. That motor has both Direct Injection and Port Injection.

The misnomers of not cleaning is BS. The physical method where chunks are knocked off is bad, but the cleaner, like any other cleaner, dissolves the deposits it removes similar to what the Gas does in a Port Injection scenario.



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[lbv150]

2015 has the flawed, direct injection only system. The intake valves are prone to coking and carbonizing. If bad enough, you get a 'check engine' light. It is covered under the 8yr/80k emission warranty. The only true fix is head removal. Foaming the engine, sends the gunk and carbon chunks into the turbos and catalytic converters(nightmare time). Invest in an extended warranty. Some shops do a 'pan drop' and filter change. That leaves about 7 or 8 quarts of dirty fluid behind. Ford dealers offer both flush and/or drain. The system is back flushed with 95% new fluid. My expedition has a drain plug on the converter. The shop replaced around 13qts. The previous owner had it flushed, the pan was spotless and clean, the old fluid was pinkish-brown, at 85K. The new fluid still cherry red after 5yrs. The red however, is just a dye. You can buy it for $5.

According to your profile you only have a 2000 Expy. Let those of us that own, drive and service the 3.5 Eccos comment. I find the comment on turbo and cat issues for cleaning entertaining to say the least.

 

[16plati]

 

[LokiWolf]

According to your profile you only have a 2000 Expy. Let those of us that own, drive and service the 3.5 Eccos comment. I find the comment on turbo and cat issues for cleaning entertaining to say the least.

Yep, Love it!


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[chuck s]

Loki's profile states he has a 2015 Expedition...

It's a shame the Expedition doesn't get the F150 power train at the same time.

-- Chuck

 

[LokiWolf]

Loki's profile states he has a 2015 Expedition...

It's a shame the Expedition doesn't get the F150 power train at the same time.

-- Chuck

When actually I own a 17 now...Haha.

Guess I should change that.

15 was totaled!

I think he was talking to rjdelp7....


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[rjdelp7]

According to your profile you only have a 2000 Expy. Let those of us that own, drive and service the 3.5 Eccos comment. I find the comment on turbo and cat issues for cleaning entertaining to say the least.

I have read numerous threads in Expedition forums on this issue. One had a link to FORDtechMAKuLOCO, on youtube. Ford, strongly advises against cleaning with sprays(look it up). Excuse me, the 15-17's Expeditions, will be like the old 5.4l 3V. The motors were crap and lowered resale on every vehicle with them. I had a chance to purchase a new 2015 'Platinum'. It was on the lot for 14 months. The dealer was offering an additional $8000 rebate. In August of 2016, Ford was in the process of 'upgrading', to the dual injector system. I researched it. This was enough to turn me off, as you see, I keep my last one a long time. There you go...

 

[Nevin]

Ahh the internet.

 

[jeff kushner]

2015 has the flawed, direct injection only system. The intake valves are prone to coking and carbonizing. If bad enough, you get a 'check engine' light. It is covered under the 8yr/80k emission warranty. The only true fix is head removal. Foaming the engine, sends the gunk and carbon chunks into the turbos and catalytic converters(nightmare time).

This is so factually incorrect, that maybe we all need a "Turbo system refresher"?

Here is the system broken down;

Air is pulled into the air filter, then it travels down to the turbos where it is compressed , from there it is sent to the intercooler and into the main air intake past the MAF past the throttle body and into the engine. ANYTHING SPRAYED INTO THE ENGINE WILL NEVER EVER send debris into the turbos. Once the system is understood, it's readily apparent why it can't. As far as anything hurting the CC, also is wrong. The catalyst heats to well over the temps required to burn any carbon or carbon flaking........

jeff

 

[rjdelp7]

This is so factually incorrect, that maybe we all need a "Turbo system refresher"?

Here is the system broken down;

Air is pulled into the air filter, then it travels down to the turbos where it is compressed , from there it is sent to the intercooler and into the main air intake past the MAF past the throttle body and into the engine. ANYTHING SPRAYED INTO THE ENGINE WILL NEVER EVER send debris into the turbos. Once the system is understood, it's readily apparent why it can't. As far as anything hurting the CC, also is wrong. The catalyst heats to well over the temps required to burn any carbon or carbon flaking........

jeff

You are incorrect. The turbo sits in the exhaust, just behind the manifold. The exhaust turns it. The boosted air going into the engine is separate. You don't want any build up on the turbo fins. They will go out of balance. The waste gate also, may not close properly. Ford issued a warning, specifically not to do do this. BMW also has the same issues. BMW only remedy is a head removal.

 

[cmiles97]

Some interesting reading concerning carbon build up on turbo DI motor valves.

https://www.underhoodservice.com/solving-carbon-deposits-direct-fuel-injection-engines/

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...a-problem-with-direct-injection-engines-.html


https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/...leaners-can-damage-ford-ecoboost-engines.html

 

[LokiWolf]

I have read numerous threads in Expedition forums on this issue. One had a link to FORDtechMAKEyouLOCO, on youtube. Ford, strongly advises against cleaning with sprays(look it up). Excuse me, the 15-17's Expeditions, will be like the old 5.4l 3V. The motors were crap and lowered resale on every vehicle with them. I had a chance to purchase a new 2015 'Platinum'. It was on the lot for 14 months. The dealer was offering an addition $8000 rebate. In August of 2016, Ford was in the process of 'upgrading', to the dual injector system. I researched it. This was enough to turn me off, as you see, I keep my last one a long time. There you go...

[emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23]

Please tell me how that reading on the Internet has given you real world experience in working on the 3.5TT EB. Did you read anything above?

I and MANY others have experience using these cleaners. I have only seen positive results, like smoother idle, MPG restored, and power restored. These were all on 100K+ 1st Gen 3.5TT’s in F150’s.

The original issue is people were doing physical cleaning of the built up deposits. Those chunks were then getting down in the cylinder, and were doing damage. It was actually dealerships causing this damage in most cases following the Ford recommended procedure. If the Tech did not do the job properly, it could end up scouring the cylinder wall, and possibly go out the exhaust port, and to the exhaust side of the Turbo.

There are many that say the spray is better than the Ford process because it cleans the deposits with a solvent, vs physical scouring. If you do it regularly it is similar to what Port Injection naturally does.


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[LokiWolf]

You are incorrect. The turbo sits in the exhaust, just behind the manifold. The exhaust turns it. The boosted air going into the engine is separate. You don't want any build up on the turbo fins. They will go out of balance. The waste gate also, may not close properly. Ford issued a warning, specifically not to do do this. BMW also has the same issues. BMW only remedy is a head removal.

Technically the Turbo is involved on BOTH exhaust and Intake. That is how they work...the odds of something getting to the exhaust side is pretty low. Because of heat mostly.

Yep, Ford issued a warning to their own people.

The aftermarket came up with products that work, that don’t require you to tear the top of the Motor down.


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[rjdelp7]

[emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23]

Please tell me how that reading on the Internet has given you real world experience in working on the 3.5TT EB. Did you read anything above?

I and MANY others have experience using these cleaners. I have only seen positive results, like smoother idle, MPG restored, and power restored. These were all on 100K+ 1st Gen 3.5TT’s in F150’s.

The original issue is people were doing physical cleaning of the built up deposits. Those chunks were then getting down in the cylinder, and were doing damage. It was actually dealerships causing this damage in most cases following the Ford recommended procedure. If the Tech did not do the job properly, it could end up scouring the cylinder wall, and possibly go out the exhaust port, and to the exhaust side of the Turbo.

There are many that say the spray is better than the Ford process because it cleans the deposits with a solvent, vs physical scouring. If you do it regularly it is similar to what Port Injection naturally does.


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The cleaner is a hydrocarbon 'fuel'. Its like dumping raw gas into your engine and burning it in the turbo. The burning of extra fuel destroys the turbos and gets set off in the catalytic converter. The solvents destroy the turbo bearings. But hey, like you said, its your vehicle...Good luck.

 

[LokiWolf]

The cleaner is a hydrocarbon 'fuel'. Its like dumping raw gas into your engine and burning it in the turbo. The burning of extra fuel destroys the turbos and gets set off in the catalytic converter. The solvents destroy the turbo bearings. But hey, like you said, its your vehicle...Good luck.

[emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23]

[emoji849][emoji35][emoji22]

Dude, it is getting burnt in the cylinder! The Motor is RUNNING while you are spraying. Then you let it sit, then basically go give it an Italian tune Up. Fuel is fuel, it gets burnt.

Look at you using a big word. Hydrocarbon.

Let me use a few...It uses a base of gas and diesel #2 to deliver other solvents, mostly polyether and hydrocarbyl amines that are there to help with the breakdown of the deposits. PS - I have a Degree in Chemistry.

There are fairly specific instructions, but I am guessing as part of your internet reading you didn’t actually read the instructions or watch any of the videos?

As far as the solvent...IT GETS Burned in the Cylinder! This is not for cleaning your Turbo, except when used with the turbo apart. That requires a tear down in most cases. You do realize that the bearings don’t get exposed to the exhaust flow right? Have you ever had your hands on a Turbo? Ever torn one down, cleaned it and put it back together? I have. Not on an EB Motor, but on TDI’s and Powerstrokes.


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[rjdelp7]

[emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23]

[emoji849][emoji35][emoji22]

Dude, it is getting burnt in the cylinder! The Motor is RUNNING while you are spraying. Then you let it sit, then basically go give it an Italian tune Up. Fuel is fuel, it gets burnt.

Look at you using a big word. Hydrocarbon.

Let me use a few...It uses a base of gas and diesel #2 to deliver other solvents, mostly polyether and hydrocarbyl amines that are there to help with the breakdown of the deposits. PS - I have a Degree in Chemistry.

There are fairly specific instructions, but I am guessing as part of your internet reading you didn’t actually read the instructions or watch any of the videos?

As far as the solvent...IT GETS Burned in the Cylinder! This is not for cleaning your Turbo, except when used with the turbo apart. That requires a tear down in most cases. You do realize that the bearings in most cases don’t get exposed to the exhaust flow right? Have you ever had your hands on a Turbo? Ever torn one down, cleaned it and put it back together? I have. Not on an EB Motor, but on TDI’s and Powerstrokes.



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I think FORD and BMW know more about there engines, than you do. If they can be safely cleaned this way, they would do it. If the engine is running(and burning fuel), you add the cleaner to the mix, how do you know its all being burned? When an engine misfires, raw fuel enters the exhaust and destroys the catalytic converter. What is the difference?

 

[TobyU]

The hot side of the turbo is a little more forgiving than the cold side. The turbine is just a small fan blade made out of metal.
The key would be to clean them early before you have lots of buildup so anything dissolving and going through isn't as large. I doubt, however, that carbon which is pretty soft really would do any damage to those things. I take most of what Ford or any other manufacturer says with a grain of salt or throw it completely out the window. They only look to cover their ass and to get out of warranty claims. They probably just want people to wait so they're dealers can make more money and they can sell more parts.
Lots of loyalty and Trust from consumers to manufacturers but hardly any at all the other way around.
If I had one, I would water steam clean the heck out of it straight down the intake then spray a whole can of gumout through it by rubbing it up, then use of berryman's B12 because it's so much better than seafoam into a vacuum hose for Ford into the intake plenum enough to empty the can slowly and then stall it out, let it sit for 45 minutes and then steam clean it some more. Then probably a little bit of WD-40 or Marvel's Mystery Oil after all the water followed by a good drive to warm it up and blow it all out.

 

[TobyU]

Another... Ford or the manufacturer knows more than you do...
You guys that say this really need to quit being so loyal, believing, gullible, whatever you want to call it. There's lots of things in the manufacture does know a lot more than we do like the sad failure rate on some of their parts but they're not going to tell you that either.
Everything they do is a carefully weighed decision with many factors involved.
The longevity of your engine and whether or not you have to have a repair done or more than one in the life of your ownership of the vehicle are not even on their list.
At least that comes in very low on their list.
There are fools out there that say a 0w 20 is the best oil for their engine because the manufacturer said so.
There is absolutely no way that is 0w 20 oil is going to offer the best protection and longevity in the most commonly used conditions.
Unfortunately, we don't have any real high-quality accurate testing of rooms full of engines made on the same day being tested with different motor oils so we can prove these results. Neither do manufacturers. They don't waste the time because it's simply not that important. A 15 or 20% reduction engine life is nothing to them and as we should all know by now the Golden Age of automobile engines is over and they're not trying or even wanting these engines to last 250k like they have been.

I have a buddy who just bought a brand new Honda 7 months ago. It's the turbo charged whatever probably a Civic. There is a known issue of fuel dilution and his test just came back at 3.3%. If you read into all the post about it they commonly have fuel dilution in the 2 to 5% range and it's accepted by Honda that it reduces engine lifespan by certain percentages. Accepted!! It's cheaper to accept these and not worry about it that's you fix the problem.
It's a lease so he will just turn it in in 3 years so he doesn't have to worry as much about it but the sad fact is it calls for 0w 20 and he can't feasibly change to different because that could give them wiggle room to deny warranty work if there is a recall Etc but we all know that in this case he would be much better served with a 5 30 or 10 W 30 or maybe even 0w 40 oil to get better protection under the fuel dilution conditions.
Point is, stop believing what the manufacturers tell you and go research some other people's real-world experience. That's what these forums are for. You'll get a lot better accuracy and better results some people like that Fordmocoloco then you will listening to the manufacturer or dealer says.. BTW, he says not to put 5w 20 and the 3 valves too.

 

[lbv150]

Guys give up.

rjdelp7 is a New Yorker and will always be right, no matter the facts or logic, simply accept that fact. Just don't ever by a used vehicle from him. bahahaha!

 

[1955moose]

Maybe we should sell it back to the Indians! Wonder how much they'd pay for Manhattan? Should have gone up some since they sold it to us. We could throw in the 3 bridges at no charge. Maybe they could build a casino out on Ellis Island, to compete with Jerseys Atlantic!

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