Towing Stability

[JasonH]

Get Roadside Assistance with a provider that will move your camper if need be. Apart from needing regular fluid and filter changes, there are completely random things that can act up on an Expedition. Throttle body, misfires, recirculating valve gasket. There's not really a way to predict everything that can happen. Also, try to avoid travel on Sunday (shops are closed), make sure you have fix a flat and spare(s) for the camper as well as tire change equipment and some tools for minor repairs. I also recommend a TPMS for the camper tires.

 

[chuck s]

When we go camping I carry a 2000 (?) pound floor jack wrapped in a towel (so I don't hear the rattle). Invaluable for a blown (not merely flat) tire on the Ohio Turnpike 5 years ago; helped a buddy reconnect his trailer to his truck when the hitch pin went missing on a dark country road; and routine maintenance.
7000 miles in 18 months seems like less than normal driving.

-- Chuck

 

[JasonH]

When we go camping I carry a 2000 (?) pound floor jack wrapped in a towel (so I don't hear the rattle). Invaluable for a blown (not merely flat) tire on the Ohio Turnpike 5 years ago; helped a buddy reconnect his trailer to his truck when the hitch pin went missing on a dark country road; and routine maintenance.
7000 miles in 18 months seems like less than normal driving.

-- Chuck

I broke my electric jack my first time out. The site wasn't level and it was dark when we arrived...we weren't paying attention and overextended the jack. I now travel with two bottle jacks to assist with leveling and tire changes. Between those and the plastic leveling blocks, I can get the camper up easily for tire changes, jack failures, etc.

 

[Timo2824]

Spark plugs and check over the turbos for coolant leaks!

 

[wk99]

I agree with Fidget247, it's the tires. I have a 2012 EL with the HD tow package and I towed a little over 6k lbs worth of car and trailer from Kansas to Texas back in 2019 on Michelin Defenders and the ride felt very unstable. I had to keep it under 60 MPH. Mind you I didn't know that the Michelins load rating was less than the stock Scorpio that came on I upgraded to 33" Nitto Terra Grapplers G2s which have a load rating higher than the OEM tires and they tow very stable. Towed 7k lbs from TX to Colorado, sometimes 80 mph, and had absolutely no sway. Once these wear out in 4 years or so, I'll upgrade to a load E or F tire just for the piece of mind. I do intend on pulling a travel trailer in the future. Best of luck.

 

[chuck s]

No "stability" issues with the 18" OEM P-metric tires on my Expedition with my Roo. These tires have a combined weight carrying ability of 5512 pounds -- more than enough for my trailer's tongue weight. Combination of sway control in both the Equalizer WDH and Ford's HD towing option. Light truck tires will work but I'd rather my Expedition not ride like a truck all the time.

-- Chuck

 

[Rosspack]

Posted this in another area of the page, but it seems appropriate here:

I actually have two questions that I hope others will be able to help me with. Thanks in advance for any help.

#1) My 2015 Expedition has always felt what I would call "loose". There is a lot of play in the steering wheel and it always has felt like it has a little sway. I was wondering if this a probelm in Expeditions or if this is a problem unique to my vehicle. This is particularly concerning when pulling my travel trailer. It is about 8000 lbs loaded and I have the tow package, so I can tow up to 9600 lbs. It is not very stable and has gotten worse, which leads me to question #2.

#2) In orrder to better handle the weight and reduce sway I bought a Pro Pride 3 hitch (sway elimination) and also upgraded to Cooper LT 275/65/R18 ten ply tires. This was at the recommendation of a truck and towing company near me. However, when I took a trip to Jacksonville this weekend the vehicle sway was even worse. It felt like I was pulling the trailer even though I wasn't. There was little wind and I was actually feeling the vehicle move when semis went by like when I am pulling a trailer. The max PSI on these tires if 80, which is what the place that put the tires on inflated them to. Should I only be running at 80 PSI when I am towing? Does anyone know if there is a recommended tire pressure on 10 ply tires when not hauling with increased weight. It was quite concerning and I white knuckled it most of the way there and back.

Any help would be appreciated, especially regarding the Expedition's stability. Thanks!

 

[rollinstone]

Swaying with NO TRAILER? Sumpin’ ain’t right. I hope your tp is not set to 80 psi. My 20” Michelins are set to 35 psi towing or not. I use the Andersen sway system.

 

[Rosspack]

I have ten ply tires that most towing sites recommend running on full max pressure. 80 PSI is the max pressure. What are your Michelins? Are they the same type of tire?

 

[chuck s]

The steering isn't loose -- you've pulled too much weight off the front axle. Truck tires, excessive tire pressure, and insufficient weight distribution (transfer to the front axle) are the problems. Unless you scrap the truck tires you can only fix two out of three but it should work.

The Expedition can support the maximum allowed rear axle weight at the tire pressure listed in the door jam which I recall is 36psi your sticker will have the pressure. Truck tires aren't necessary as the P-Metrics are more than capable of handling the allowed weights. I run my P-Metrics at 40psi when towing -- when I remember -- just to take a little squirm out of the load but even at 36 there's no sway/fishtailing 'cuz my WDH puts weight back on the front axle.

An 8,000 pound trailer requires 10% to 15% of that weight on the ball for safe towing -- 800 to 1200 pounds. Even the minimum of 800 pounds will unload the front (steering) axle and unless your WDH puts weight back on it you'll get loose steering. Note the maximum weight on the ball is 920 pounds and that requires a properly adjusted WDH.

Recommend weighing the rig and comparing the weights to the allowable axle ratings. Also note the cargo capacity of your Expedition. Mine is roughly 1450 pounds and if I put the maximum allowabe weight on the ball (in my case 920 pounds) I'd only have 530 pounds for everything else. With my 120 pound former swimsuit model wife on board that's just 410 pounds remaining for everything including me and the dogs.


Overinflation severely decreases the tire contact with the road.

-- Chuck

 

[Rosspack]

I have the Pro Pride 3 with weight distibrution and have taken all the measurements when towing. The loose or sway feeling was when riding with my family in the car, not towing. We probably had about 950 lbs of people in the car with a payload of 1650 lbs. I called the guy who installed the tires and he recommended when not towing to decrease the PSI to 50. That might help.

The reason I went with the ten ply tires is because my tongue weight with the hitch is 752 lbs for the trailer tongue weight and then 195 lbs for the hitch, so 947 lbs. I was getting a lot of side wall flexing with the original tires so I went with the 10 ply truck tires as recommended by a truck company (didn't purchase from them, just took the recommendation).

So as I was saying, the wdh is working properly, all measurements are in line, just experiencing the lack of stability which was more concerning since I wasn't towing. I am going to adjust the PSI when not towing and then go from there and get the vehicle looked at if it continues. Thanks for any help.

 

[chuck s]

Easy to confirm your WDH is sending weight to the front axle by weighing the combination before and after the trailer the trailer goes on the ball. It may be good but you're running your tires extraordinarily over pressure -- not for the tires but for the Expedition. Because they're dramatically overinflated they're only contacting the pavement in a thin center section drastically reducing traction especially laterally. Like the sketch I just posted. Like running on bicycle tires.

Without the weight of the trailer the tires are much less loaded which magnifies the effect of over inflation as even less tire tread touches the road.

Compare the weight capacity of the truck tires at 80psi to the weight on the axles. I'm seeing 3515 pounds per tire at 80psi.

Front axle gross axle weight rating: 3,550 pounds. Pair of tires at max pressure: 7,030.
Rear axle gross axle weight rating: 4,300. Tires 7,030.

Or 14,060 pounds for the whole truck -- my Expedition has a maximum allowable weight of 7,500 pounds and yours will be similar. Empty the Expedition weighs about 6,000 pounds. Inflating the tires to handle over 14,000 pounds will make it ride like a truck and be squirrely due to so little rubber on the road.

-- Chuck

 

[Rosspack]

That makes sense. I took them down to 50 PSI today and it definitely was better.

If it calculates like a sraight ratio then 50 would seem correct. My numbers are 6890 at 80 on the rear axle and 4280 at 50 PSI.

This was very helpful. Thanks.

 

[chuck s]

It is pretty linear. A Cooper chart I found indicates their LT tire rated to support 3415 pounds at 80psi will support 2660 pounds at 50psi or 5320 per axle or 10,640 for the truck -- which is 3,000 pounds more than the permissible GVWR of 7,500. Appears safe to me. Keep an eye on tire temperature until you have some experience with this pressure -- and the rest of the Tire Jury here votes.

-- Chuck

 

[Rosspack]

Do you happen to have a link to that chart?

 

[chuck s]

Try this. <--- that's a link. The 3415 pound capacity at 80 psi shows at the far left making me think this is your tire.

And this: https://tirepressure.com/tire-pressure-calculator

Edited: When I ran the pressure calculator (above) against my OEM P-metrics and LT tires of the same size (higher load rating though) it says the appropriate pressure for the LT tire is 50 psi -- just like our guesses and the chart shows for the same capacity. 50psi will ride a lot less truck like.

-- Chuck

 

[guspech750]

I have a 2017 XLT EL with heavy duty tow package. I’ve been towing our Grey Wolf 23MK for two seasons now. Fully loaded it’s about 7,600lbs. I use an Equalizer WDH 1,000/10,000 model. The first couple of tows were hot garbage. I could feel the OEM tires rolling under them selves on long sweeping turns on the highway along with the crappy weak sidewalls on the OEM trailer tires. I ordered a second set of rims and load range E tires, Helwig sway bars and sumo springs. I also quickly replaced the crappy new tires on the trailer with new Goodyear Endurance with a higher load range.

When ever I tow I air up the tires I air up the tires to 80psi. (When I’m not towing. I reduce the air to 55psi) I also check the torque on trunion bolts/nuts too. I come to find that they do loosen a smidge over time. Even though I use jam nuts and locking nut. I’ve also adjusted/fine tuned the hitch multiple times while fully loaded trying to maximize the hitch ability to control sway and distribute weight.

Over all with those mods and adjustments. And really being aware of how I load the trailer. Most of the time I also fill the water tank with 40 gallons of water. I’m sure some syphons through the over fill tube. Anyways My Expy tows damn good. We have towed through mountains, snow, heavy rains, heavy winds etc. I can easily and comfortably tow at 80mph. No white knuckle steer with one hand. The only times I have issues is during extreme windy days.

I also got rid of those crappy OEM mirrors and installed nice tow mirrors that retain OEM functions.

And who doesn’t like pics?

 

[shane_th_ee]

Hi again, guys. Ok I think I have the sway thing squared away. Went with LT tires and Helwig rear anti sway bar with new Helwig FRONT anti sway bushings. (That was their idea - even supplied the bushings)

NOW, I am contemplating a lengthy road trip - likely 7000 miles over the next 18 months. The Expi has 76000 on it. I HAVE done specified service at the dealer all along - flushes, etc included.

What I am after are community thoughts on other preventives or enhancements before I start out. My concerns are basically centered on an unease that I am driving basically a f-150 and towing a 6000 pound airstream for a long distance, and up and down mountains. It will be basically freeway, so no EXTREAM grades, but still …

As a reminder, the rig is a 2017 King Ranch 4 X 2 with the 9000 # HD towing package. I use the Equal-izer 9000 # hitch. Trailer tires have been upsized to 16” Michelin truck tires and I run them at 50 #.

It should be a reasonably relaxed trip - doing 300 - 500 miles a day with additional ‘stay overs’ as we feel inclined.

Thoughts? Equipment I might further invest in? Early replacements? I have put some thought into just doing the shocks as a proactive step, for example.

How long has it been since you had the trailer bearings repacked and/or replaced? I do mine every 3years/15kmi. And it might not be a bad idea to have the trailer brakes inspected while they’re doing the bearings.
Also, trailer tires should be replaced every 6 years…

 

[guspech750]

@gkretro

 

[JohnSC]

I have the Pro Pride 3 with weight distibrution and have taken all the measurements when towing. The loose or sway feeling was when riding with my family in the car, not towing. We probably had about 950 lbs of people in the car with a payload of 1650 lbs. I called the guy who installed the tires and he recommended when not towing to decrease the PSI to 50. That might help.

The reason I went with the ten ply tires is because my tongue weight with the hitch is 752 lbs for the trailer tongue weight and then 195 lbs for the hitch, so 947 lbs. I was getting a lot of side wall flexing with the original tires so I went with the 10 ply truck tires as recommended by a truck company (didn't purchase from them, just took the recommendation).

So as I was saying, the wdh is working properly, all measurements are in line, just experiencing the lack of stability which was more concerning since I wasn't towing. I am going to adjust the PSI when not towing and then go from there and get the vehicle looked at if it continues. Thanks for any help.

Just reading this thread - you may have a payload issue when traveling. You said in post 31 above that you have 950 pounds of family and 947 pounds of trailer tongue weight and hitch - a total of 1897 pounds of potential payload. That is a bit more than your rated payload. So if the family total when towing is the same as you reported when you were seeing the sway, you need to rethink things.