What's the Limiting Factor???

[LJ4174]

OK, so to bring this back up, here is what I'm running into... We LOVE this Expedition, I like the wheels, it's loaded, doesn't have the load leveling system or a DVD though...

Cars for Sale: 2011 Ford Expedition EL 4x4 Limited in Zieglerville, PA 19492: Sport Utility Details - 331334195 - AutoTrader.com

Payload capacity is 1520 lbs...

Now, I find this one, which is still pretty loaded as above except has cloth seats vs leather, can't imagine there is too much of a weight difference there, also has either 17" or 18" wheels...

Cars for Sale: 2012 Ford Expedition EL 4x4 in Lansdale, PA 19446: Sport Utility Details - 329740120 - AutoTrader.com

However the payload on this one is 1696 lbs.

That's a 200 lb differnce, so what's the weakest link here? Is it the 20" wheels, that's the only thing I could think because of the low profile tires. Any thoughts on this or if you can get a 20" tire with a heavier sidewall to bring this rating up or if the wheels themselves just aren't as strong... And, does that 200 lbs make that big of a difference? The 3/4 suburban we looked at only had a 2051 lb payload capacity and only 100 lbs more on the hitch 900 lbs on the Exp. vs 1000 lbs on the Suburban...

It's kinda funny and aggervating asking sales folks about this number... They are giving me all kinds of stuff...

Oh, and that ford vin check that someone posted here, is awesome!!! Helps a ton so I don't even waste my time on Expy's that don't have the HD tow package...

Thanks...

LJ

 

[LJ4174]

Well, so much for the wheels as tires as the limiting factor. I just got a reply on this one:

Cars for Sale: 2011 Ford Expedition EL 4x4 in West Chester, PA 19382: Sport Utility Details - 324056502 - AutoTrader.com

The payload on this one is 1496!!!

 

[RI-Matt]

LJ, just curious where you are getting the payload numbers on the ones you posted.
Also, you have to remember that the GCWR is the same for all Expys at 15000lbs. All 4x4 EL's are rated the same for towing, regardless of rear axle ratio, so really the only variable is payload. Therefore if the Expy has alot of options, like in the case of the two Limiteds you posted, the payload will go down because the weight of the vehicle is higher. The other one you posted with the higher payload doesnt have a power third row. Right there I would think shaved quite a few pounds.


Matt

 

[LJ4174]

Thanks Matt...

Well, I can't see a power rear seat weighing 200lbs, I may be wrong, but I just can't see it weighing that much. Also, I'm pretty sure in order to get the 8750 lb payload capacity you need to have the 3:73 gears and the HD tow package...

See the attachment where I'm getting this information from, but here is a perfect example... That sticker below is from this Expy:

Used 2011 Ford Expedition EL XLT *Ford Certified* For Sale in West Chester PA | 1FMJK1J56BEF10045

So what is it 1469 lbs...

However, this one:

Used 2011 Ford Expedition EL For Sale in Lehighton PA | Vin: 1FMJK1J54BEF39172

Has a payload capacity of 1697 lbs...

So what's the difference?

We found a trailer that is less weight that will work for us and even though I'll be close to the 15K total weight, I'm more concerned with the payload on the truck with the tounge weight of the trailer and the family inside with anything else we have in there, or eventually when the kids get older and/or want to bring a friend/friends... I'm trying to figure out the limiting factor because I don't want to bust a wheel or or a spring or something while I'm driving down the highway, doesn't seem like fun...

Additionally, here are the stickers from each vehicle, they are pretty much identical:

http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FMJK1J54BEF39172

http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FMJK1J56BEF10045

Any thoughts???

Thanks...

LJ

 

[Dib52]

First sticker doesn't list HD tow package, second one does.

 

[LJ4174]

Hey Dib... You think someone (like myself) so concerned about the HD tow package, would have noticed that!!! I looked, but didn't notice that was an option. I thought the class IV trailer tow was the HD tow package... Need to relook at that stuff, but that throws a bit of a wrench into things...

So those links for the stickers are actually opposite of links to the vehicles, so the Expedition WITH the HD Tow Package, has the 1469 lbs payload capacity, and the one WITHOUT the HD Tow Package has the 1697 lbs payload... Hmmmm...

That's weird... I'm sure the extra HD towing compenents weigh more, but then takes away from the actual amount you can haul... Hmmmm...

Might need to really look at this bit more, and or get an Excursion or maybe a truck and have the wife follow in the Explorer with the kids and the dog!!! That might be a more pleasant ride for me anyway!!!

 

[LJ4174]

So I quickly looked like at this...

This is the one we really like...

Cars for Sale: 2011 Ford Expedition EL 4x4 Limited in Zieglerville, PA 19492: Sport Utility Details - 331334195 - AutoTrader.com

Here is the window sticker:

http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FMJK2A56BEF39258

Payload on this, as I mentioned way above, is 1520 - since this is the limited, I assume the HD tow package isn't an option, it's included in the Limited version of the vehicle and the wheels have nothing to do with it???

 

[Dib52]

So I quickly looked like at this...

This is the one we really like...

Cars for Sale: 2011 Ford Expedition EL 4x4 Limited in Zieglerville, PA 19492: Sport Utility Details - 331334195 - AutoTrader.com

Here is the window sticker:

http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FMJK2A56BEF39258

Payload on this, as I mentioned way above, is 1520 - since this is the limited, I assume the HD tow package isn't an option, it's included in the Limited version of the vehicle and the wheels have nothing to do with it???

Rapid spec 300a is what you need for the HD tow package to be included...you have it on this one. As far as the wheels are concerned, you will lose some interior weight capacity due to the 20's, but that's what the Limited came with. Just boils down to more unsprung weight on the 20 vs a 17 inch. This one looks like a happy medium, 1520 lbs should be plenty. 5 adults at 200 lbs still leaves you +500 for gear. Contender?!?

 

[LJ4174]

Rapid spec 300a is what you need for the HD tow package to be included...you have it on this one. As far as the wheels are concerned, you will lose some interior weight capacity due to the 20's, but that's what the Limited came with. Just boils down to more unsprung weight on the 20 vs a 17 inch. This one looks like a happy medium, 1520 lbs should be plenty. 5 adults at 200 lbs still leaves you +500 for gear. Contender?!?

Yeah maybe... I'm not so concerned with normal driving, more concerned with the towing part and possibly putting too much on with the trailer tounge weight and then people and gear and such. The wife wants to go look at this tomorrow so we'll see...

 

[cherokeexj32]

any new news?

I was just curious to see if you had any updates on your trailer quest?

I have been towing a 3000lb hybrid camper for years with my 03 XLT FX4 with no issues, and now we are really wanting to get a bigger camper in the:

28-30' length and under 6k with it loaded - really want to stick to 5500 when loaded - that is why I like a few of the aluminum built campers.

Now after reading all these posts people have me worried.

 

[LJ4174]

I was just curious to see if you had any updates on your trailer quest?

I have been towing a 3000lb hybrid camper for years with my 03 XLT FX4 with no issues, and now we are really wanting to get a bigger camper in the:

28-30' length and under 6k with it loaded - really want to stick to 5500 when loaded - that is why I like a few of the aluminum built campers.

Now after reading all these posts people have me worried.

Well... Yes and No... I'm getting very frustrated with looking at vehicles. I went to look at the Expedition EL I mentioned above that was supposed to have a 1520 lb payload, when I get there it was actually 1400 lbs. The truck needed tires, there was a rattle in the back somewhere and rubber gasket around the rear hatch lid was cracked and dry rotted. Pretty bad for a 2011. Then they offered me $14K for my 2011 Ford Taurus SEL which is basically perfect and has every option. I walked out of the dealership...

I posted my rants on facebook and low and behold a buddy of mine actually has an Expedition EL without the towing package, he installed the upgrades himself and is towing a 34' (hitch to bumper) 6800lb empty weight camper with it and says he has no issues what so ever and it does fine. Said he gets about 9 mpg while towing...

So we are somewhat back to the drawing board. I went to a local ford dealer to look at a new Expedition EL with the wife and talked to the fleet guy, who I basically knew more then, however he told me he wouldn't have an issue with me towing what I want to with the Expedition EL, he said he sets guys up with heavier springs and such and even a buddy of mine who does car work suggested some air bladders if I go down this road.

I really wished a truck would work for my family, but it simply won't for the 350 days a year I'm not towing with it. Considering a few Excursions, but anything decent is really expensive with the deisel engine, pretty reasonable with the V10 however with the V10 looking at 10-12 mpg on a normal basis...

Anyway, I think for what you are looking to tow, you will be perfectly fine...

Hope this helps...

LJ

 

[Dib52]

LJ, who are you using as the dealership up there? Masano bent over backwards for me back in '07 when I bought mine. They didn't have what I wanted and I sat down with the salesman(John) and we searched and searched until we found exactly what I wanted with all of the appropriate equipment. Mine ended up coming from somewhere in NJ and they were more than happy to ship it in on a flatbed. Then again, I was buying new and trading a 05 SCrew FX4 and a 04 Explorer on the Expy. Maybe that had something to do with it, but it was still a pleasurable experience!

 

[LJ4174]

LJ, who are you using as the dealership up there? Masano bent over backwards for me back in '07 when I bought mine. They didn't have what I wanted and I sat down with the salesman(John) and we searched and searched until we found exactly what I wanted with all of the appropriate equipment. Mine ended up coming from somewhere in NJ and they were more than happy to ship it in on a flatbed. Then again, I was buying new and trading a 05 SCrew FX4 and a 04 Explorer on the Expy. Maybe that had something to do with it, but it was still a pleasurable experience!

Hey Dib...

Not any dealer in particular, just using autotrader for the most part to locate them. The dealer I mentioned above was Bergey's in Zeiglersville... I personally would not step foot on a Tom Masano lot... My brother bought a Mustang from them, he put an expensive stereo in it and when he took it back in for work, someone stole the whole stereo... Complete inside job, no wires were cut, nor was the dash, everything was taken apart nice and neat and then they fought and fought with him to pay him the insurance money and he did only wind up getting about 1/4 of what the stereo was worth. It was bad and the way the dealership handled the situation, left a very bad taste in my and my families mouth... Anyway...

I found an 08 in NJ that apparently has the HD tow package and a 1698 payload capacity. I asked the dealer to sent me a picture of the payload capacity sticker to verify this number and to give me an idea of trade in value of my car before I make the 2 hour drive...

 

[Dib52]

I can see how that could leave a bad taste, just thought I'd mention that my experience was positive with them. Keep searching, they are out there, just sucks that most salesmen don't have the knowledge of the product line.

 

[01yellerCobra]

I posted my rants on facebook and low and behold a buddy of mine actually has an Expedition EL without the towing package, he installed the upgrades himself and is towing a 34' (hitch to bumper) 6800lb empty weight camper with it and says he has no issues what so ever and it does fine. Said he gets about 9 mpg while towing...

LJ

FWIW that's the route I plan on going. I picked up an EL without the HD towing package. My research shows that the suspension and hitch are the same across the board. All EL's come with 3.73 gears. So all I have to do is wire in a 7 pin plug, get the larger radiator, and the larger tranny cooler. My EL already has a tranny cooler, but Ford shows two different coolers. One is standard and one is super cooling.

 

[LJ4174]

I can see how that could leave a bad taste, just thought I'd mention that my experience was positive with them. Keep searching, they are out there, just sucks that most salesmen don't have the knowledge of the product line.

Yeah, very frustrating, especially when I'm telling them the specs and then they check on it and confirm I'm right...

FWIW that's the route I plan on going. I picked up an EL without the HD towing package. My research shows that the suspension and hitch are the same across the board. All EL's come with 3.73 gears. So all I have to do is wire in a 7 pin plug, get the larger radiator, and the larger tranny cooler. My EL already has a tranny cooler, but Ford shows two different coolers. One is standard and one is super cooling.

Yeah, that's all my buddy did, added the wiring and the extra or a larger trans cooler, haven't talked to him much about it, but he seems happy with it. His is a 2010...

 

[01yellerCobra]

Yeah, that's all my buddy did, added the wiring and the extra or a larger trans cooler, haven't talked to him much about it, but he seems happy with it. His is a 2010...

I have an 08. I don't plan on towing anywhere near max anytime soon though. My boat is only around 5k.

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[LJ4174]

I have an 08. I don't plan on towing anywhere near max anytime soon though. My boat is only around 5k.

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I'm sure you will be fine. A camper is much different then a boat, I'm towing a camper a bit over 5K with my V6 Explorer right now...

 

[LJ4174]

Anyone know the difference between the class III tow and the class IV tow? What difference is there then with the Heavy Duty tow package? Is something that just changed with wording from the 08 such as this one:

http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FMFK20558LA01243

To one of the ones I may have listed earlier in this thread?

 

[01yellerCobra]

I'm sure you will be fine. A camper is much different then a boat, I'm towing a camper a bit over 5K with my V6 Explorer right now...

I'm sure I will. I towed this same boat with a V8 Mountaineer.