What’s with these dealers?

[JExpedition07]

I went with to a a Chevrolet dealership today to look at a replacement work van for my dads aging E-350. We have a commercial salesman at Ford and looked at the Transit, piece of garbage. We know these people well as the company buys lots of trucks from them. Light duty chassis, small brakes, no V8 etc. Parts guy said they are a nightmare and to keep the E-350 or move on and highly recommended the E-Series over the transit for the sever duty. The 2008 E-350 is coming up on 225,000 miles and regularly has over 1,000 LBS in the back and tows often, it’s been a great truck for him. I work with my dad a lot as he does the HVAC for our builds. Truck has never wined and has done alot of service. Regular dealer has no 2014 E-350 trades with low miles.....ok moving on to their Chevrolet branch late at night.

Walked in gave info and they walk back with a payment “guide” with a 7% INTEREST RATE!?!? We regularly pay in the 4% range for trucks at Ford, That’s almost double. I often find myself going into the dealer and negotiating on the trucks. But personally we pay the close to same rates as we buy from the same commercial salesman. Guy is sketchy and said he hasn’t ran a report, ok so go run it? He danced around the gross price on the van and only wanted to talk about the payment. Walked around interest and payment. So speaking of walking we walked out the door. Perhaps it’s not involving the commercial sales manager at this hour, but it was still odd and sketchy how they operated. I’m used to going in working on gross price and trade first then dealing with interest, to which ford is never anywhere close to 7%. I get he was using a “guide”, but why do the dance and work on payment only? He was all gun hoe on setting up a nice fat interest rate and only wanted to work on loan terms. Anyway enough ranting, it was odd.

 

[Habbibie]

I completely disagree with you regarding the transit commercial van. I drive one for my job, 250 series, mid height roof, longest wheelbase and this van is 100 times better than the E-series Van's & chevy express Van's, the higher roof alone is a game changer, then add the EcoBoost into the game and you have yourself a hidden gem that'll not necessarily out-tow the express Van's but it doesnt struggle towing within its capacity... he you dont even realize you're towing anything sometime seeming how good the pick up is and how little it tugs. Its bigger too and handles like a car not a clunky van, you need to live with one to understand what I'm talking about.

Ps. I chose the transit van over the choices i was given of a 2015 E250, 2017 Express 2500, dodge promaster, Mercedes/dodge sprinter, 2017 f150 EcoBoost & a 2018 Silverado V8! (Both were extended cab 4x4) drove each one (and towed) for 3 consecutive days and the transit easily wins it all given you get the EcoBoost motor, the sprinter is a close second the F150 third, but the E series & express Van's are garbage in comparison.

Anyways I dont want the first reply to take this thread off topic so please carry one with the OP's subject...

 

[JExpedition07]

I completely disagree with you regarding the transit commercial van. I drive one for my job, 250 series, mid height roof, longest wheelbase and this van is 100 times better than the E-series Van's & chevy express Van's, the higher roof alone is a game changer, then add the EcoBoost into the game and you have yourself a hidden gem that'll not necessarily out-tow the express Van's but it doesnt struggle towing within its capacity... he you dont even realize you're towing anything sometime seeming how good the pick up is and how little it tugs. Its bigger too and handles like a car not a clunky van, you need to live with one to understand what I'm talking about.

Ps. I chose the transit van over the choices i was given of a 2015 E250, 2017 Express 2500, dodge promaster, Mercedes/dodge sprinter, 2017 f150 EcoBoost & a 2018 Silverado V8! (Both were extended cab 4x4) drove each one (and towed) for 3 consecutive days and the transit easily wins it all given you get the EcoBoost motor, the sprinter is a close second the F150 third, but the E series & express Van's are garbage in comparison.

The ecoboost transit seems to not have longevity in mind. I asked around, the E-Series is a stronger built truck. I asked my most trusted shop and dealer guys which is better, 90% was E-Series is better. These people work on them everyday. My dad doesn’t care that he won’t feel the load behind the ecoboost, he wants a van that will go 250k miles with the least maintenance, and the 5.4 hauls great for him. I’ve driven his 08’ with a trailer, it’s got 4.10 gears and let me tell you, you don’t feel a thing even if it’s 8,000 pounds. The Transit isn’t the truck that will do that for quarter of a million miles trouble free, at least according to the guys who work on them.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

They focus on payments to increase profits. Sadly, most people are easily duped by the lure of lower monthly payments. By stretching out the loan they can up the price of the vehicle and/or get you into an entirely different vehicle that costs more than you wanted to spend. I always source my loans from outside the dealership and let them know right up front that I've done so, so we can avoid that ridiculous payment dance. I don't play games with any add-ons, fees, or anything else for that matter anymore either. I tell them I will pay X dollars + tax. Period. That's not X for the vehicle, Y for plates, Z for doc fees, XX for the CPO warranty ... No, it's just X dollars and you break that down however you want.

As for the loan rate itself, that's pretty damn high. We paid that on a new car many years ago when our credit was in the 600s. When I bought my truck in 2015 I paid 2.x% and would have paid about half what I did if I had bought new. That said, my buddy's aunt co-signed on a car for him when we were in college and paid 19.x% for a used car (she had a recent bankruptcy on file). There's a very broad range of interest rates depending on where your credit is at.

 

[Black]

Because people are stupid!!

My granny just bought an Equinox. And GM financing was 6.99% but you get $750 down payment assistance.

Granny financed thru her credit union at 2.5%.
Did not get the $750 assistance and will still pay a fair amount less less over the life of the loan.

People are stupid they focus on payment the right here right now payment.

Always have your financing done before going to the dealer.
Lock down an out the door price.
Then when that price is locked you give them your interest rate and give them the opportunity to beat it.

 

[jeff kushner]

You would have been keen to leave the moment he handed you the "guide" as you knew full that it was the "setup".......I have VERY little patience for "sellers games". You want to take face to face over dollars, fine...but don't play ploys on me. Like others, I'm an out-the-door guy and I keep trades and cash down payments separate....

I'm surprised on your take on the Transit. I respect your opinions so I was a little surprised since I had the opinion that they were nice little trucks with a 3.5eb installed.

Unfortunately, dealers are preying upon today's' "conflict avoiders" who live most of their life on a keyboard and are loosing the ability to look someone in the eye and tell them "no". They are pure fodder for a good negotiator......and when they leave, they will be saying "thank you for screwing me"!

jeff

 

[JExpedition07]

Thanks for the comments guys, wondering if I was crazy. As far as the interest rate yes seems they dupe a lot of people there with the “what do you feel comfortable paying monthly line” while getting them to ignore it. At Ford when I go in we have a setup with the dealer they call “at cost” pricing. You still have to beat them up on small stuff but it knocks a lot off gross price. Supposedly they only make interest on our purchases hence the medium interest rate in the 4s on a commercial loan. I figured it was all a game and I caught on pretty quick. How many people fall for it is the sad thing, I guess the shady car salesman still holds true lol.

 

[Dennis_H]

When I bought my last new vehicle, I had my financing through the credit union lined up and ready to go. Had the out the door price done. The finance office told me that I would get a substantial amount off if I used there financing. I think it was 1000 or 1200. I verified there was no prepayment penalty. Signed up, and the next day payed it off with the credit union financing. May want to see what deals you can get that way.

 

[Flexpedition]

Getcha a brand spanking new 2019 E350/E450 cutaway. Single rear wheel or dually. There are dozens of service body mgfs - Knapheide, Reading, Harbor just to name a few. Its no secret these set-ups increase productivity and profit margins. You are able to be more organized and keep more of what you use on hand - no down time and expense in running back and fourth to fetch parts/tools all day. Its a professional work truck, not a cargo van trying to be something other than a cargo van.

Shouldn't bother with a V6 or V8 when you can have a 6.8L V10 and 420 ft/lbs of torque, right? You can have upto 9K payload and over 14K GRVW. Thats chest pounding shit right there.

What kind of car salesman would he be if he told you that you'll need $15K cash down and your 36 monthly payments were going to be $805.64? He'd be a financially responsible car salesman, and probably out of a job in a week.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

My mom bought an Explorer a few years ago and went in with a trade. The salesman started at $16,500 for the trade, went to $18K, and eventually to do $20K as my mom told him that she wouldn't take a penny less. He took a little off the purchase price also to get her in below $40K. She thought she got a great deal. In reality though, she ended up paying more the vehicle that when she first walked in the door of the dealership. He sold her an extended warranty for nearly $4K - and it's a 3rd party warranty that she has since discovered most dealerships won't take. She started out with $6K in rebates and ended up with $1,500 in rebates. In sum, the salesman took about $4,500 off the starting point and tacked $8,500 on and all she had to show for it was a s*itty extended warranty. The dealer sold her trade-in for $26K about 2 weeks later btw.

 

[Trainmaster]

A salesman's job is to get the most he can for his product without killing the sale. If a buyer isn't a good negotiator, is dull, or dim, or stupid, or simply not worldly he will be ripped off.

For the love of God, if you send your mother/daughter/19-year-old-kid/Democrat grandpa in to "get a deal," go with him to keep him out of trouble.

A friend showed me the great Kia he bought. Only after showing me the contract did he discover he leased the s*itbox. He thought he bought it.

 

[5150 pops]

It has always been this way for me since 1988, when I bought my first car.

I've learned over the years, most times the real pushy - almost like their reciting from a script verbatim, have less than 2 years on the job, or in sales of any kind.

The one thing I have learned to receive everytime I'm met with what kind of rate/monthly/term, is I simply need your best price possible, the rest will naturally fall in place.
You have to do lots of pricing research ahead of time as well as pre-approval from your bank or credit union for a predetermined amount/rate and term.
There's quite a few online "cash for your used car" I've used to gauge real trade value. These sites will usually price you a bit lite, but from further research you still can gauge whethsr you may be able to negotiate more for your trade.

All thatasidet it is up to the individual to protect their wallet, and usually REQUIRES divulging the LEAST amount of information necessary to the salesperson.
Repeated responses of I'm looking for the best price, and if your store provides me with the best price, I will buy today. They need nothing else from you, if they want to sell a unit. Once you do have your price, it's at this time if you haven't already done so during negotiating price, have the pinstripes, wheel locks, any dealership advertisements, etc. as a condition of sale on the buyer's order

I'm not saying my way is best, but it has saved me a great deal of time. If I get the four square within 10 minutes of being on the lot, wanting to talk price (presumably to them as a cash buyer), I'm out the door, with a smile on my face, because I know I just saved a shit ton of my time and money.
Once price is agreed upon, I mention letting them have an opportunity to price my current vehicle. Then the game restarts, EXCEPT price is already locked down from a written buyer's order.
So you either negotiate into a price for your trade, or walk if they won't come up on the offer. They won't offer you what they are really ready to pay you for your car, at first, but stick it out, and you probably can get close to where you'd like, or walk.
Then repeat for the finance office, if you want to give them a chance to earn your financing. You will already know what you have, presumably from your bank and it's solid.

First thing I tell the F&I person after the initial introduction, is to let them know straight up front, I have zero interest in discussing extended warranty, undercoating, service for life, etc. they may suddenly forget or remember something else that is sooooo fantastic they just would not be doing their job if they didn't mention it to you. Be prepared AS SOON AS you hear that line come out of their mouth, to get up politely, and tell them that it is unfortunate we could not close this deal, have a good day.

Likely they will apologise, and the rest will go swimmingly, but be sure to check the numbers every step of the way, with your own calculator.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

A salesman's job is to get the most he can for his product without killing the sale. If a buyer isn't a good negotiator, is dull, or dim, or stupid, or simply not worldly he will be ripped off.

For the love of God, if you send your mother/daughter/19-year-old-kid/Democrat grandpa in to "get a deal," go with him to keep him out of trouble.

A friend showed me the great Kia he bought. Only after showing me the contract did he discover he leased the s*itbox. He thought he bought it.

My mom makes over $300K/year as VP of billing, has an MBA and is about as far right as one person can get, but has always lacked savvy when it comes to her own personal finances. I can't wrap my head around it. Forget about trying to help her. She's been a high-paid exec/the big boss for over 3 decades so you can't tell her anything. On the bright side, she can afford to be ripped off.

btw the salesman doesn't get a pass on being a scumbag just because it's his job. You can be a tough negotiator without hiding additions/subtractions in the fine print. There's a big difference between a customer trying to haggle with me and one that agrees to pay me $100, hands me $90 and tries to run out the door before I can count it.

 

[JExpedition07]

Commercial guy called yesterday and mentioned what flex did about going the cutaway route. He said the E-350 cutaway has the 6.2L V8 and 6.8L V10 available and it’s largely the same chassis as the old cargo van. We’ve had very good luck with the 6.2L V8 on the Super Duties, been bulletproof reliable over lots of miles. Online I see torque on the Super Duty 6.2 is 430 lb ft and it’s a bit lower on the E-350 (356 lb ft) why’s this? Not that it matters to him anyway. Salesman said he’s got a couple like new Chevy expresses coming in too with less than 20k on them (ford dealer). So he will be looking over his options again. I would think an E-350 with a work body/ either engine is a good truck.

 

[Adieu]

I went with to a a Chevrolet dealership today to look at a replacement work van for my dads aging E-350. We have a commercial salesman at Ford and looked at the Transit, piece of garbage. We know these people well as the company buys lots of trucks from them. Light duty chassis, small brakes, no V8 etc. Parts guy said they are a nightmare and to keep the E-350 or move on and highly recommended the E-Series over the transit for the sever duty. The 2008 E-350 is coming up on 225,000 miles and regularly has over 1,000 LBS in the back and tows often, it’s been a great truck for him. I work with my dad a lot as he does the HVAC for our builds. Truck has never wined and has done alot of service. Regular dealer has no 2014 E-350 trades with low miles.....ok moving on to their Chevrolet branch late at night.

Walked in gave info and they walk back with a payment “guide” with a 7% INTEREST RATE!?!? We regularly pay in the 4% range for trucks at Ford, That’s almost double. I often find myself going into the dealer and negotiating on the trucks. But personally we pay the close to same rates as we buy from the same commercial salesman. Guy is sketchy and said he hasn’t ran a report, ok so go run it? He danced around the gross price on the van and only wanted to talk about the payment. Walked around interest and payment. So speaking of walking we walked out the door. Perhaps it’s not involving the commercial sales manager at this hour, but it was still odd and sketchy how they operated. I’m used to going in working on gross price and trade first then dealing with interest, to which ford is never anywhere close to 7%. I get he was using a “guide”, but why do the dance and work on payment only? He was all gun hoe on setting up a nice fat interest rate and only wanted to work on loan terms. Anyway enough ranting, it was odd.

Borrow elsewhere, never ever talk payments with a salesman.

Many will gladly sell you 1-2-3-4% or even 0% and them try to stiff you $10k on the price

 

[Habbibie]

Borrow elsewhere, never ever talk payments with a salesman.

Many will gladly sell you 1-2-3-4% or even 0% and them try to stiff you $10k on the price

Show up with a 840 or higher credit score and no average Joe salesman will ask you for a down payment or tell you any interest

 

[Adieu]

Show up with a 840 or higher credit score and no average Joe salesman will ask you for a down payment or tell you any interest

Of course not, they're too busy giving you 0% at $10k over MSRP

 

[1955moose]

Too many games. Now I remember why I buy low mileage used from private party. Theirs got to be an easier way to buy a new van. Bottom line get your borrowed money elsewhere, and shop the internet for best price, and pick up there. It's worth a 100 mile drive not to go through all the bull.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[SEPTIC PROFESSOR]

Dudes, still haven't figured out what any of this dribble has to do with Ford Expeditions.

 

[Clemson82]

Dudes, still haven't figured out what any of this dribble has to do with Ford Expeditions.

It's under the category "general discussion". Move along if you don't want to read it.