2020 Expy Limited: missed shifts

[Kahuna]

I searched the threads for a similar problem but no luck - so here we go

On my 2020 limited 4x 25k miles I have a very rare but ugly shift issue. First it started while towing up hills twice in the same trip. While attempting to accelerate up hill it missed the shift and “slammed” back into gear. So loud my wife “yelled”!

I said “oh it’s ok honey it’s back” but then an hour later it happens again. I should add I didn’t have it in tow mode.

It’s now happened again without towing and just now up a short hill it went right out of gear. Idled a bit while I’m helpless with no peddle then went back into gear.

I have taken it to the dealer and they report no codes and can’t replicate. Well of course they can’t after test driving 14 miles.

Any suggestions or like issues??

We are upgrading to an airstream soon and I don’t want to have an undependable tow vehicle!

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I searched the threads for a similar problem but no luck - so here we go

On my 2020 limited 4x 25k miles I have a very rare but ugly shift issue. First it started while towing up hills twice in the same trip. While attempting to accelerate up hill it missed the shift and “slammed” back into gear. So loud my wife “yelled”!

I said “oh it’s ok honey it’s back” but then an hour later it happens again. I should add I didn’t have it in tow mode.

It’s now happened again without towing and just now up a short hill it went right out of gear. Idled a bit while I’m helpless with no peddle then went back into gear.

I have taken it to the dealer and they report no codes and can’t replicate. Well of course they can’t after test driving 14 miles.

Any suggestions or like issues??

We are upgrading to an airstream soon and I don’t want to have an undependable tow vehicle!

My only suggestion would be to placed the transmission in tow/haul mode when towing and see if the shifting issue recurs.

 

[Kahuna]

Thanks to clarify all incidents (3) have happened in normal drive mode. Although the first two I was towing but not in tow mode.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Thanks to clarify all incidents (3) have happened in normal drive mode. Although the first two I was towing but not in tow mode.

Based upon your description, it sure sounds as though there is a transmission or software issue, or both.

I don’t have any suggestions again - other than to continue to return for warranty repair if the problem recurs. I would ensure that the dealer documents your complaint in writing on an invoice - and any work done (even if they can’t duplicate the issue and there are no codes).

My experience with buying a new 2015 Expedition Limited and subsequent defects is that the Ford dealers are not trained how to trouble shoot problems - they are computer code readers, who then repair or replace what Ford tells them.

I suspect you will continue to have transmission problems, just ensue you have everything in writing in case you must seek legal help. Good luck.

 

[mhExped]

I've encountered similar situations going up or down hills resulting a really harsh SLAM. I've complained about it on several service visits to the dealer and have gotten nowhere.

I do believe I've come across threads on this forum where others have complained of similar sounding experiences, though not all limited to ascending/descending hills. However, it is rare there's ever word of a diagnosis or fix.

Here's one thread that has had some recent activity, in case it may be relevant to your situation and you've not yet seen it: https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/2018-transmission-clunking-slamming-in-gears.40606/

Good luck. And, please follow up here if you ever get to the bottom of your particular issue.

 

[Kahuna]

Well dealer reports again no codes and no indication of my problem while driving. He admitted how complicated these control modules are when they interact. When there are supposed to be stored codes there are none.

I ask for them to go back and ensure there’s no software updates and reload TCM completely if they think it would help.

Looks like I’m getting back again for more driving. They are advising to bring it in immediately with the “wrench” light on so they can capture the code. Assuming I’m in the hood

 

[Kahuna]

Ok so now a couple of weeks later and Ford is still scratching their heads. Fortunately I now have real evidence (codes) that have left a trail of bread crumbs.

With previous issues it didn’t leave a wrench or error message/codes on the modules when read. The last two missed shifts resulted in me catching the “Shift fault” message before it disappeared and the service guy was able to use my vin number and see what the car reported as it happened. I included the screen shot below from his screen. But still no codes left in the modules to report a problem - strange.

Basically modules were not communicating which put the car in a “blind” kind of situation for the TCM. Not knowing how fast the car was going I guess.

Ford “mother ship” is apparently reviewing the situation and will advise the dealer. Probably throw parts at the problem.

Im hoping for a fix. Love the vehicle except for this crazy missed shift issue! Otherwise I’ll go down the path of the Calif Lemon Law.

 

[LokiWolf]

Did they reflash the TCM, or tell it to do a relearn? Both are common when the 10Spd is acting up.

 

[Soliyou]

Ok so now a couple of weeks later and Ford is still scratching their heads. Fortunately I now have real evidence (codes) that have left a trail of bread crumbs.

With previous issues it didn’t leave a wrench or error message/codes on the modules when read. The last two missed shifts resulted in me catching the “Shift fault” message before it disappeared and the service guy was able to use my vin number and see what the car reported as it happened. I included the screen shot below from his screen. But still no codes left in the modules to report a problem - strange.

Basically modules were not communicating which put the car in a “blind” kind of situation for the TCM. Not knowing how fast the car was going I guess.

Ford “mother ship” is apparently reviewing the situation and will advise the dealer. Probably throw parts at the problem.

Im hoping for a fix. Love the vehicle except for this crazy missed shift issue! Otherwise I’ll go down the path of the Calif Lemon Law.

I think you are the first one to report a fault when this happens. The lost communication with the BCM could be the reason!

 

[Kahuna]

Yes they did reflash the TCM. I assume that puts it in relearn mode.

This BCM lost communication problem is apparently rare for Ford too

More to come ….

 

[Jerald Cook]

I've encountered similar situations going up or down hills resulting a really harsh SLAM. I've complained about it on several service visits to the dealer and have gotten nowhere.

I've recently started having the same issue, on a fairly repeatable basis. When going slightly down hill and coasting, around 50 mph, I'll get an extremely harsh clunk when the transmission downshifts from 10 to 8. The harsh cluck also happens on occasion after starting the car and going from park to drive. I'm planning on setting up a GoPro to try to and capture a few incidents to share with the dealer.

Sounds like a few people are having this issue so hopefully Ford can diagnose the issue and implement a fix.

 

[Kahuna]

Boy you are describing my situation exactly. Also going from 4-3 I get the same clunk.

Pretty sad that Ford put out a transmission or controller that is this flawed.

Two calls to Ford service and no call backs yet - to status what Ford has advised them to do for me

 

[Kahuna]

Update;

Car has been with the dealer now for two weeks. Dealer unable to download firmware from Ford. They have a trouble ticket in with no response from Ford for days.

I just opened a Buyback application with Ford. They immediately interviewed the service rep to get all the repair records and info. He thinks this may help to put pressure on Ford to respond to the ticket. Ford claims I’ll hear back from them in 5 days to see if they accept the application. Then I guess the next step is an offer. We paid 82k for this (limited/Stealth package 4x and tow package)

It’s got 27k on it so there will be a discount on the buyback offer. If anyone has advise here I’m all ears

Dealer apparently thinks this is a software and not a hardware problem. I’m not convinced.

We’d rather have this car fixed then go through a buyback scenario. Cash in hand won’t help me if there’s no cars in stock. The dealer will put an order in for me when they hear the application was approved. Just get the process going in case they can’t fix this car.

We are taking ownership of a new airstream 25’ International right after Xmas. With no TV this won’t be fun

The Expedition is really our only option in this class to tow 7300 lbs.

Oh well the drama continues….

 

[JakeInTexas]

Mine just did the same thing kinda. At WOT @40/80mph its trying to shift into park. You can hear the parking claw engaging and everything. After 2 weeks of looking into it they are putting in a new separator plate on the main control valve?! Im still under full warranty. We will see if this is truly the fix....

 

[Kahuna]

Boy that’s even a scarier situation than mine! Trying to shift into park is a transmission worse nightmare.

Just heard today that Ford wants to replace my transmission and cooler. That will take well into January before the stars line up to get the work done.

In the meantime there might be a buyback offer.

They have to fix this one way or the other - if they are going to resell it.

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

I'm X-Ford with some contacts still inside. My '20 does the same thing, seemingly randomly. The guys I talk to inside Ford claim that all of the 10 speeds have the potential to do it in F's and Expeditions. They claim it is the result of an overly aggressive use of the Torque Converter Clutch to improve fuel economy. The shift strategy is to keep the Torque Converter locked for nearly all conditions outside of shifting. They describe it as a long shift event caused by throttle position changes and/or load changes during a shift event that cause the computer to change it's mind on what gear to go for mid shift causing the shift even to go long. The torque converter clutch then engages before the shift is entirely complete causing what they call a "slam-bang". Originally they thought that the events were rare enough to ignore; but, as we all know, it's causing real customer concerns. They're working on software fix(s) now.

I told them that I don't believe there is anyway that they designed everything else downstream of the Torque Converter to be able to handle more than a few dozen of those events without causing more problems. Just saying.

 

[Kahuna]

Man I’m so so grateful for your input here and education.

“It all makes sense now”

So given your intel I’m thinking that even if they replace the transmission the software is really the issue here. The transmission will start to fail again until that software is updated.

Thanks for your input! I’ve got one more question for you that I’ll direct privately…

 

[udntknw]

Ok so now a couple of weeks later and Ford is still scratching their heads. Fortunately I now have real evidence (codes) that have left a trail of bread crumbs.

With previous issues it didn’t leave a wrench or error message/codes on the modules when read. The last two missed shifts resulted in me catching the “Shift fault” message before it disappeared and the service guy was able to use my vin number and see what the car reported as it happened. I included the screen shot below from his screen. But still no codes left in the modules to report a problem - strange.

Basically modules were not communicating which put the car in a “blind” kind of situation for the TCM. Not knowing how fast the car was going I guess.

Ford “mother ship” is apparently reviewing the situation and will advise the dealer. Probably throw parts at the problem.

Im hoping for a fix. Love the vehicle except for this crazy missed shift issue! Otherwise I’ll go down the path of the Calif Lemon Law.

Were they able to read those codes from the truck or through their OTA diag system?

 

[aggiegrad05]

I'm X-Ford with some contacts still inside. My '20 does the same thing, seemingly randomly. The guys I talk to inside Ford claim that all of the 10 speeds have the potential to do it in F's and Expeditions. They claim it is the result of an overly aggressive use of the Torque Converter Clutch to improve fuel economy. The shift strategy is to keep the Torque Converter locked for nearly all conditions outside of shifting. They describe it as a long shift event caused by throttle position changes and/or load changes during a shift event that cause the computer to change it's mind on what gear to go for mid shift causing the shift even to go long. The torque converter clutch then engages before the shift is entirely complete causing what they call a "slam-bang". Originally they thought that the events were rare enough to ignore; but, as we all know, it's causing real customer concerns. They're working on software fix(s) now.

I told them that I don't believe there is anyway that they designed everything else downstream of the Torque Converter to be able to handle more than a few dozen of those events without causing more problems. Just saying.

Given this 10 speed was developed jointly by Ford and GM, I wonder if it's affecting any of The General's models. If it's a software issue, and we know that Ford and GM each utilize their own software in the jointly developed hardware, my guess would be "no". But maybe someone has some intel that suggests otherwise?

 

[Jerald Cook]

Given this 10 speed was developed jointly by Ford and GM, I wonder if it's affecting any of The General's models. If it's a software issue, and we know that Ford and GM each utilize their own software in the jointly developed hardware, my guess would be "no". But maybe someone has some intel that suggests otherwise?

When I took my 2020 in a few ago, I asked the service advisor this same question and his response was that the issue affected all the 10-speeds, even the GMs. His explanation of the issue was exactly the same as what Robert Bonner explained above, and said he himself was an unhappy 10-speed owner (and wouldn't buy another vehicle with the 10-speed until the issue was resolved), so I'm inclined to believe him.