1st post! How and Where to buy next Expedition?

[rustyshackelford]

Getting ready to buy a new Expedition, but am confused about how best to locate and buy one. here are the details/parameters:

Seeking a late model or new 4x4, probably XLT trim to replace my (bought new) 2000 XLT. vehicle will be used for car-pooling teens, road trips, and some actual work (towing, off-road): in each case usually carrying associated equipment from bikes and surfboards to lawnmowers and tools. plan to keep it for at least 6-7 years and accumulate probably 100,000 miles. We want real 4x4, the towing package (radiator, suspension, etc) and prefer 40/20 back seats and leather v cloth.

Question 1: new or (slightly) used? * what is the life expectancy of a 3.5L EcoBoost, realistically? are there other components that are proving to be short-lived? (see #3 also). the prices in each case are way beyond what I consider reasonable, but maybe there is no option, given the sad state of the industry.

Here's my perception of the buying environment: it's difficult to identify trim packages and options available. Looking through the nationwide 'usual suspects' listings (Carfax, Carmax, Truecar, cars.com) I see not great availability generally, outrageous pricing on the used models, and it is difficult to decipher how the vehicles are actually equipped.

Question 2: what is considered the most reliable source(s), and the one(s) with greatest selection? are there particular, trustworthy dealers who do volume online sales?

Question 3: am very worried, and put-off, by what seems to be a big problem with the EcoBoost 3.5L engine: an apparently unsolved cam-phaser problem that may/may not cause permanent/ultimately fatal damage (from oil starvation on cold starts). likewise, 'the shudder' which may be transmission related, turbo related (a particular problem with passenger-side units?) or something else; no one seems to know about either, and Ford apparently hasn't resolved either.
are those issues largely restricted to the pre-2018 models; I still see a lot of commentary about the same problems in the 2020s? just how widespread is the problem (10% of vehicles, 50%)? do the 'fixes' actually fix anything? is the 3.5, as ubiquitous as it is, just a bad engine in the Expedition?

Thanks for any guidance. my old Expedition has been reliable for a long time, and I am a Ford guy, but the current state of affairs does not inspire confidence.

 

[JasonH]

Q1: Generally I prefer to purchase off-lease vehicles. But with the severely limited availability, there may not be much difference in used vs new when you account for remaining life. Ultimately, go with what makes the most financial sense. Just be aware that if availability improves in the next 24 months, you may see a drop in values. If you keep the vehicle for awhile, it may not matter to you.

Q2: Right now, I think most sellers are just selling whatever they can get hands on. Read seller reviews and see what people have to say, but don't expect strong aftermarket support. I've purchased vehicles through traditional dealerships, Carmax, and Carvana, and had a good experience with both of the latter two. Regular dealerships have too much sales pressure. I generally know more than the sales people and just want to be left alone when evaluating a purchase. I can't say I ever had a bad purchasing experience with a vehicle, it's the support post sale that is always the issue.

Q3: I think the longevity of the engine varies substantially depending on how it is treated and which day it was built, mostly the latter. Mine is at 126K now with commuting and towing, but the head gasket went out around 118,000. Before that I only replaced plugs and a throttle body. Given the cost of repairs with an engine this complex, your best bet is probably to spring for a vehicle with moderate mileage so you can get decent warranty coverage. My head gasket repair paid for the entire warranty.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

Mine is at 126K now with commuting and towing, but the head gasket went out around 118,000.

I was ok with my head gasket going at 240k on my Crown Vic. At 118k, I'd be livid. That's awful, especially for what Expeditions cost these days.

 

[Trainmaster]

The major low-mileage repair incidence of these Ecoboost engines may suggest you look at others' offerings.

 

[JasonH]

I was ok with my head gasket going at 240k on my Crown Vic. At 118k, I'd be livid. That's awful, especially for what Expeditions cost these days.

I agree. And it's strange...I don't think it's a common repair on this engine. The only thing I've heard is phasers and sometimes turbos. These engines are great when they're running, pulls my trailer like a champ. There aren't many options for a long wheelbase SUV with 8k towing. But I would be wary of owning one outside of warranty.

 

[rustyshackelford]

The major low-mileage repair incidence of these Ecoboost engines may suggest you look at others' offerings.

That's my worry. seems like an inordinately high number of issues with the engine. Im going to start pricing alternatives. No GM product however.

 

[rustyshackelford]

I agree. And it's strange...I don't think it's a common repair on this engine. The only thing I've heard is phasers and sometimes turbos. These engines are great when they're running, pulls my trailer like a champ. There aren't many options for a long wheelbase SUV with 8k towing. But I would be wary of owning one outside of warranty.

Same. That's why I asked this question. Lots of cam-phaser failure and turbo failure. I wish there were more attention paid to the 'car' end of these products v. the infotainment/tech side. ..."great when they're running" is the common sentiment, but doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

 

[JExpedition07]

They are all similar these days as far as reliability. Most will be ok well into and past 100k into 200k but with more sensors more issues. Your options are limited here. GM makes a good motor (6.2) but the 5.3 is pretty sub par if you plan to tow. For everyday it’s ok. And Ford makes the EcoBoost which you want if you plan to tow a lot. Nissan doesn’t have a good track record. Toyota Sequoia is getting an update and a twin turbo engine soon. Personally I’d only take a 6.2 or Eco. The 5.3, 5.6 are a bit weaker and the Durango’s are just too small. The new sequoia will be interesting.

 

[rustyshackelford]

Q1: Generally I prefer to purchase off-lease vehicles. But with the severely limited availability, there may not be much difference in used vs new when you account for remaining life. Ultimately, go with what makes the most financial sense. Just be aware that if availability improves in the next 24 months, you may see a drop in values. If you keep the vehicle for awhile, it may not matter to you.

Q2: Right now, I think most sellers are just selling whatever they can get hands on. Read seller reviews and see what people have to say, but don't expect strong aftermarket support. I've purchased vehicles through traditional dealerships, Carmax, and Carvana, and had a good experience with both of the latter two. Regular dealerships have too much sales pressure. I generally know more than the sales people and just want to be left alone when evaluating a purchase. I can't say I ever had a bad purchasing experience with a vehicle, it's the support post sale that is always the issue.

Q3: I think the longevity of the engine varies substantially depending on how it is treated and which day it was built, mostly the latter. Mine is at 126K now with commuting and towing, but the head gasket went out around 118,000. Before that I only replaced plugs and a throttle body. Given the cost of repairs with an engine this complex, your best bet is probably to spring for a vehicle with moderate mileage so you can get decent warranty coverage. My head gasket repair paid for the entire warranty.

Ha. your answer to #3 is, unfortunately, a sentiment I keep hearing. having always been a 'Ford guy' it is disappointing. you're right, of course: I wish I could wait 24 months, but the need is more immediate. I keep checking the various sites you mention and will see what is available over the next few weeks. Might be better served buying new (at least then fully aware of any problems, when they arose and how addressed) ...

 

[rustyshackelford]

They are all similar these days as far as reliability. Most will be ok well into and past 100k into 200k but with more sensors more issues. Your options are limited here. GM makes a good motor (6.2) but the 5.3 is pretty sub par if you plan to tow. For everyday it’s ok. And Ford makes the EcoBoost which you want if you plan to tow a lot. Nissan doesn’t have a good track record. Toyota Sequoia is getting an update and a twin turbo engine soon. Personally I’d only take a 6.2 or Eco. The 5.3, 5.6 are a bit weaker and the Durango’s are just too small. The new sequoia will be interesting.

it is disturbing to hear that reliability is a 'crap-shoot' pretty much across the board. I don't like GM products. The Chrysler stuff, from my experience with acquaintances, is all a time bomb. I am now leaning toward the Sequoia, for the reason you, and everyone else apparently, don't like them: old design, big, unstressed V8, and a ton of room. It falls short in towing, compared to an Expedition with the tow package. OTOH, far fewer trips to the service center outweighs more trips to the pump.