A/C is warm

[stamp11127]

Something to think about. The refrigerators of today also use r134a. Would you be happy with 55 degrees in the box with a house temp of 80? Who wants to drink warm beer?

 

[juan214]

That is the "non New Yorker" r134a chart. I use a different chart that I call the "Jesus" chart. If my wife hasn't said "Jesus it's cold in here" the a.c. isn't working properly. Plus I'm a transplanted New Yorker.....

We have the students under charge, normal charge and over charge a system so they can see and hear any differences between them. When we have low side pressures around 37 psi, vent temp is very close to the pressure reading. Then I have them read the evap with a thermister. Usually the evap is around 10 degrees. I ask them to explain why the condensate isn't freezing with that low of a temp.

I want the jesus chart. So drop it below 45 / 210?

Obviously it will would still run in the 30s

Now that I think abot if I put 5 12 ounce cans of R-134A plus 3 ounces of PAG oil. Its deffintely overcharge at minimum by 1ounce. Can not beileve I screwed the math up. Live and learn.

Would post #17 have anything to do with climate control in the truck?

Got it down to 40 - 42 / 197 - 200 give or take..... Vent still at 76 - 78 degrees

Went back out to look at the readings went its 83 out now very slight vent temp change if that.




Could I have gotten bad freon?

Nevermind I just looked it up:

No, refrigerant will not go bad. As long as you have a fully sealed cylinder and there are no leaks on the cylinder you refrigerant will last indefinitely. ... Other than that your cylinder is a sealed unit and will not deplete or leak any refrigerant over it's lifetime.

 

[stamp11127]

Getting closer. Make sure you have the EATC on max, you should be able to see a door under the dash open/close as it is cycled on or off. There is usually a change in fan speed with that mode.

Have you tried the box fan yet? Clamp off one of the heater hoses so there isn't any coolant flow through the heater core just in case it is blending.

The evap temp is around 48 degrees, still too high. Inside scale on the low pressure gauge is temp F.

Post #17:
That may be so there is some air movement around the underside of the dash or so you can hear a chime if one is there. The opening is too restrictive for moving large amounts of air.

How much oil did you add to the system when you changed the parts last year?

 

[TomFFMedic]

I am usually a diy guy but seeing you chase this almost makes me want to pay and be done with my issues.

 

[stamp11127]

He is only chasing this because he doesn't have a recycle/recovery machine, did previous work and then stopped. If he did have an R/R then the diagnosis would be quick - unless there was a leak. With those it can take a few hours to find.
And repairs like this can run around $2000+

 

[juan214]

After two hours equalized.

EATC at max. Box fan is under truck blowing up in an angle.

Got the temp info.

I get the air leakage at the cabin filter. I have to duct tape it back up to seal it.

I put in 2 ounce in for the the new dryer and about an ounce for leakage under the truck when changing all the o-rings.

Plus the 60 ounces of freon give an ounce or two.

After 30 minutes running with box fan after and evaced 5 more pounds.

 

[stamp11127]

Pressures are better, vent temp hasn't changed so that means you have one or two things going on.
1) Evap is dirty and not transferring heat to the refrigerant and cold air to the cabin. Tar from cigs will clog the evap over time. Any smokers own the vehicle in the past?

2) Heat is blending with the cold air raising the vent temp.

When you remove the cabin air filter, if you are able to touch a portion of the evap you will be able to see how cold it is getting when the system is running. This is the redneck finger temp test.

Accumulator and low pressure lines should be cold to the touch and sweating now. Need to check.

What is the rear air doing?

Also need gauge readings with system running and rpms increased. Need to see if the low side is going into a vacuum. Low side should drop some, high side increase some. Wild swings are not good though.

Line to evap after the orifice tube should be getting cold as the system is running and hot before the orifice tube. This is where it goes from a high pressure liquid to a low pressure liquid and the temp change is beginning. Once it enters the evap we get a state change from the liquid to gas by absorbing heat in the cabin.

If both are just cool then you have a condenser issue. High side pressure is around 200 so the temp will be also. Don't grab a hold of the line, just quickly touch it.

 

[stamp11127]

Another thing to check would be the plenum drain. If it is plugged the plenum will fill up with water until it overflows into the cabin. This really kills cooling performance since the evap is in water.

 

[juan214]

Pressures are better, vent temp hasn't changed so that means you have one or two things going on.
1) Evap is dirty and not transferring heat to the refrigerant and cold air to the cabin. Tar from cigs will clog the evap over time. Any smokers own the vehicle in the past?

2) Heat is blending with the cold air raising the vent temp.

When you remove the cabin air filter, if you are able to touch a portion of the evap you will be able to see how cold it is getting when the system is running. This is the redneck finger temp test.

Accumulator and low pressure lines should be cold to the touch and sweating now. Need to check.

What is the rear air doing?

Also need gauge readings with system running and rpms increased. Need to see if the low side is going into a vacuum. Low side should drop some, high side increase some. Wild swings are not good though.

Had to update the photos in last post.

Pressures are better, can there be more than oil than freon now that its been decrease by over 20 pounds?

No smokers in this truck and it was a repo before that. Pretty clean when I got it. No nicotine build up on plastic when I cleaned it.

Removed the cabin air filter touched the evap it is not cold. Did this last night as well.

Accumulator and low pressure lines are not cold to the touch and sweating anymore. After dropping 20 pound of pressure. Seems like there is not and refrigerant in the system.

Heater hose into truck clamped off now.

Vents Temps:
Front: 76
Center: 85
Rear: 80

Temps
Low Line: 125
Dryer: 135
Vents: 76

Air Box:
inside (at evap from filter opening): 100
Bottom (exterior behind EVAP): 85
Behind glove box left near blend door (exterior): 65

It's like it's not getting from blend door area up to vents (makes no sense).

I'm starting to think there is a wrong amount of freon / oil or moisture. Last year on July 7th it was 92 out and it went from 100 at the vent to 58 - 60 after the repairs were completed. Happy with that left it at that knowing it could get lower like our winstar that got to 48 at the vents.

Failed Dryer?
Bad Condeser (never changed)?

Dont think there are anymore parts to change except for two o-rings but that is not the issue here.

At least the system leaks are fixed and held for more than a year.

Sucks that the local meineke's R/R machine is down for repair and they don't know when it's getting fixed.
___________________________________________________________________________________

I pulled the dash out. No one knew what the vent holes were for not even three dealerships and they only show two and the one for the EATC does not shows the vent (misprint in my opinion). I never saw one like it salvage yards, One dealership said it may be aftermarket. Here is what was behind the vent holes and the white hose did connect to it.

98 99 00 01 02 Ford Expedition / Lincoln Navigator Dash Vent Air Temperature Sensor F85H-19C734

Looks just like a MAF sensor.

I ended modding the panel, made no difference with the tempatures at the vents.

I'll clean it up and repaint the panel someday.

Hoping the A/C fairy came by last and sprinkled some of that dust on the truck. Going out there to see what's up today recheck temps. Called meineke and the R/R system is still not fixed. It would cost me $125 plus tax if and when they have it fixed.

 

[juan214]

Another thing to check would be the plenum drain. If it is plugged the plenum will fill up with water until it overflows into the cabin. This really kills cooling performance since the evap is in water.

Another thing to check would be the plenum drain. If it is plugged the plenum will fill up with water until it overflows into the cabin. This really kills cooling performance since the evap is in water.

I addressed the drain in 2017 but will look into it. No water in cabin. When I took the filter out it should have been wet right?

 

[stamp11127]

I'll look at the plenum layout after work and answer your question.

Also in reply #11 you stated no condensate or dripping but recently said it stopped. Can't have both.

 

[juan214]

I'll look at the plenum layout after work and answer your question.

Also in reply #11 you stated no condensate or dripping but recently said it stopped. Can't have both.

I'll look at the plenum layout after work and answer your question.

l looked at the plenum from under the dash. Looks like the EVAP sits in the lower half of the plenum. Condesation builds up drips downwards and to the left (to drivers side) then down again to the firewall and out. It sits in it about an inch it would have to fill up to that point to get to the filter and overflow into cabin.

What a PIA to check this out. Took inner fender off just to see from wheelwell. Crawled under to veiw up. The drain looks clear or is it a vent I see from underneath?. Is there a picture showing that there is both a vent and drain?

Also in reply #11 you stated no condensate or dripping but recently said it stopped. Can't have both.

There was no dripping anywhere. IR Reader says the top of the dryer ranging between 90 - 100 degrees. The line next to battery is cool nothing major to the touch and was 85 degrees with very little condesation. My dyrer has a foam jacket with a hole at the bottom.

Before dropping the 20 pounds of pressure:
Temps
Low Line: 85 (very slight condensation but visible)
Dryer: 90 - 100 up and down

After dropping the 20 pounds of pressure:
Temps
Low Line: 125
Dryer: 135

New Question (probably dumb)
Since the system was releived of 20 pounds of pressure any idea of what that may equate into in ounces of refrigerant?

 

[stamp11127]

The ir temp guns need to be right up on the lines to get an actual reading. As you move back it averages a larger area.
Gauges say the evap temp is around the mid 40's so how can the low side line read 125?
Condenser is around 175-200 degrees.

Are you reading the metal on the accumulator or the foam insulator?

"After dropping the 20 pounds of pressure:
Temps
Low Line: 125
Dryer: 135" This would mean the evap is acting as a heater

I'd say the readings are wrong.

 

[stamp11127]

The evap and lines should be very cold with that pressure reading.

Run the system for 5 minutes. Increase rpms to 2500 and note what the low and high side pressures read. You should see the low pressure drop as the rpms increase, high side should also increase but not a crazy amount.

When you added the refrigerant did you purge the air out of the yellow hose?
All this testing should be on max, windows closed, rear air also running on high.

Take a static pressure reading with the engine cold, ac not run overnight. The pressure should be 3-4 psi above ambient temp on a system that has a full charge. Yours should be lower but still rather close. Static readings are on both the high and low sides, gauges should be close, the low side is more accurate.

Student recharged a Civic today, at idle in the hot sun, low was 44, high was 190. Once the car was moving and the airflow through the condenser increased the vent temp was 38. Low side reading under power was about mid 20's.

 

[juan214]

The evap and lines should be very cold with that pressure reading.

Run the system for 5 minutes. Increase rpms to 2500 and note what the low and high side pressures read. You should see the low pressure drop as the rpms increase, high side should also increase but not a crazy amount.

When you added the refrigerant did you purge the air out of the yellow hose?
All this testing should be on max, windows closed, rear air also running on high.

Take a static pressure reading with the engine cold, ac not run overnight. The pressure should be 3-4 psi above ambient temp on a system that has a full charge. Yours should be lower but still rather close. Static readings are on both the high and low sides, gauges should be close, the low side is more accurate.

Student recharged a Civic today, at idle in the hot sun, low was 44, high was 190. Once the car was moving and the airflow through the condenser increased the vent temp was 38. Low side reading under power was about mid 20's.

I guess we stop taking readings here now.

Once again I beleive you nailed it. When I was coached through this last year one detail was left out. Guess what it was. Make sure you purge the air out of the yellow line before filling the system.

Rookie mistake not knowing that detail.

Now What?

 

[stamp11127]

You would still get at least some cooling with contaminated refrigerant but the pressures would be off.

I'm still interested in what the rear air is doing plus the static pressure once the engine has cooled off.

If there is air in the system it would need to be evacuated again. I would do that as a last resort since you don't have a recovery machine available.

When you installed the orifice tube did you pay attention to the arrow? Some tubes can be installed backwards.

How much dye did you add?

 

[juan214]

You would still get at least some cooling with contaminated refrigerant but the pressures would be off.

I'm still interested in what the rear air is doing plus the static pressure once the engine has cooled off.

If there is air in the system it would need to be evacuated again. I would do that as a last resort since you don't have a recovery machine available.

When you installed the orifice tube did you pay attention to the arrow? Some tubes can be installed backwards.

How much dye did you add?

You would still get at least some cooling with contaminated refrigerant but the pressures would be off.
The cooling at the vent was 76-78 degress with Outside temps being 78 - 84 degrees

I'm still interested in what the rear air is doing plus the static pressure once the engine has cooled off.
The rear is running warmer.
Static pressure readings Ill get first thing in the morning.

When you installed the orifice tube did you pay attention to the arrow? Some tubes can be installed backwards.
It went back in the same direction as the original came out.



How much dye did you add?
What I use to find the leaks, then system emptied out in 24 hours. Added some into the yellow line when filling it. Which came back out when prssure was releived as well as some oil.

 

[TomFFMedic]

He is only chasing this because he doesn't have a recycle/recovery machine, did previous work and then stopped. If he did have an R/R then the diagnosis would be quick - unless there was a leak. With those it can take a few hours to find.
And repairs like this can run around $2000+

Yep, keep convincing I should drive this to Louisiana during hurricane season.

 

[stamp11127]

Just to make sure, the colored part of the orifice tube should face the hose end that is open - per Fords Service Manual Climate Control for 1999 Expedition. You can check the length of tubing from the pinched area to the open end to see if it is possible to install backwards. I've never had to change the one on my 99 so I can't say if the manual is correct or not.



https://www.google.com/search?q=ori...msung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx

 

[juan214]

Just to make sure, the colored part of the orifice tube should face the hose end that is open - per Fords Service Manual Climate Control for 1999 Expedition. You can check the length of tubing from the pinched area to the open end to see if it is possible to install backwards. I've never had to change the one on my 99 so I can't say if the manual is correct or not.

View attachment 31137/QUOTE]

The tube went back in as soon as it was pulled out. So it should be in the correctly. My photo could be wrong so could my memory with age mixture (LOL).

Static Pressure @ 8:23 am right on target right? All previous readings matched as well.

• So the system is contaminated with air and should be purged/emptied?
• The oil that came out should it be replaced? Recharge last year was 2 oz. for accumulator/Dryer and 1 oz. for leakage.
• No need to worry about dye as it didn't leak out over the past year.
• Do I need replace anything again, I would double check the orifie tube but sure its fine?
• Just out of curiousity if the orifice tube is in backwards what wouid it affect?