Can we talk HD Tow one more time?

[Lou Hamilton]

If I cared more, I would remove the third row seats and replace it with a lightweight aluminum frame system. I could probably save at least 100 pounds with that mod. That might make up for the added weight of the new tires and wheels. LOL

 

[Rj Smith]

As requested - the table is now in Google Docs. Analyze away!!! And feel free to add your own data or correct errors - public editing enabled.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wCAOZhHTkUjnc9Ax8fLariL04xFCkyE0w2KwwBm9NyM/edit?usp=sharing

Arthur Doumas - you are the very first to have a different Rear GAWR - any idea why?

One last time in text format:

Year Trim  Length 4wd FX4 HDTow PanoSR Rim Sits Payload GVWR FGAWR RGAWR User
2019 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1553    7450 3375  4380  Lou Hamilton
2020 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  8    1482    7450 3375  4380  Eric Mowrer
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1647    7720 3550  4380  byathread
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  8    1629    7720 3550  4380  BLUWAGN
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  No    Yes    22  _    1619    7720 3550  4380  GB19XLT
2019 Platinum 123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1487    7450 3375  4380  Flying68
2020 Platinum 123 Yes No  Yes   ___    22  7    1537    7450 3375  4380  Matthew Marlowe
2018 Platinum 132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1585    7720 3550  4380  Saltwater Soul
2019 XLT      132 No  No  Yes   Yes    20  8    1613    7400 3300  4380  wakeboarder
2018 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   Yes    18  8    1671    7720 3550  4380  shane_th_ee
2019 XLT      132 Yes No  Yes   No     20  8    1767    7720 3550  4380  Joey Smith
2019 XLT      132 Yes No  No    Yes    18  8    1676    7720 3550  4380  DWs-TTEB
2020 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   No     18  7    1905    7720 3550  4380  sanman28
2018 XLT      123 Yes No  Yes   No     18  8    1633    7450 3375  4380  Meeker
2018 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    20  7    1644    7720 3550  4380  Squark
2018 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    20  7    1542    7450 3375  4380  Rx7gslse
2019 Limited  132 No  No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1590    7400 3300  4380  Dice Roll
2019 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   No     18  8    1855    7720 3550  4380  duneslider
2019 XLT      ___ No  No  Yes   No     20  8    1667    7225 3175  4380  Rossue
2019 Limited  132 No  No  No    Yes    20  8    1627    7350 3300  4200  Arthur Doumas
2019 Platinum ___ ___ ___ Yes   Yes    22  7    1507    7450 3375  4380  Wayne Decker

Revisiting this as we're hunting for an Expy to tow either a 282QBXL or a 280QBS. Has anyone compiled a list of other years? Specifically 2015-2017?

 

[Expedition Dave]

Question:
Why is my GAWR (3375f + 4380r) 7755lbs, yet that exceeds my GVWR (7450lbs)?

My payload capacity is also 1746lbs.

 

[byathread]

Question:
Why is my GAWR (3375f + 4380r) 7755lbs, yet that exceeds my GVWR (7450lbs)?

My payload capacity is also 1746lbs.

https://tfltruck.com/2018/07/ask-tf...front axle rating plus,the GVWR for the truck.

Not great, but, somewhat of a good answer, I think...

 

[Hardrocker]

I went through the Google doc list and didn't see my exact combination. I added it. 2019 XLT, non-Max, FX4, HD Tow, no SR. Payload 1939 according to the sticker.

 

[wakeboarder]

I went through the Google doc list and didn't see my exact combination. I added it. 2019 XLT, non-Max, FX4, HD Tow, no SR. Payload 1939 according to the sticker.

View attachment 41296

FYI - The sticker in the picture shows 1639. I think there may have been a typo.

 

[Fasttimes]

Do XLTs that have HD Tow do they still have that driver knob lower right that you use to assist in backing up? I ask just because I use that as a visual cue when looking at Expys online forsale to see if they have HD tow.

And has anyone figured out how much 4wd lowers your payload capacity? Or does it not? I know it lowers the towing capacity a bit.

 

[shane_th_ee]

Do XLTs that have HD Tow do they still have that driver knob lower right that you use to assist in backing up? I ask just because I use that as a visual cue when looking at Expys online forsale to see if they have HD tow.

And has anyone figured out how much 4wd lowers your payload capacity? Or does it not? I know it lowers the towing capacity a bit.

XLTs with HD Tow still have the pro-backup assist knob.* As for payload, 4WD *increases* payload because the 4WD front axle has a higher weight rating than the 2WD axle. There's a separate thread on payload and configuration where one of the members has gone through the effort to compile the results into a spreadsheet.

*If a truck has the ITB, but NOT the pro-trailer back-up assist, it's a non-HD tow with the ITB added.

 

[JasonH]

Revisiting this as we're hunting for an Expy to tow either a 282QBXL or a 280QBS. Has anyone compiled a list of other years? Specifically 2015-2017?

I was going to update the sheet, but it says it's for 4th gens. My 2017 has 1474 payload. It's a 2017 Limited 4x2 w/o sunroof or FX4 package. It does have HD Tow.

 

[Rj Smith]

We ended up with an 18 XLT 4X4 with 1639lbs. 42k miles, certified preowned for $40.5k. Wanted a newer one but supply was so low and life timing demanded action. Seems general trend is newer equals more payload, 4x4, bench, 18 inch wheels, no sun roof if you are looking for max payload

 

[PHD20]

1792lbs on my 2020 XLT, non-Max, 4wd, HD tow, no moonroof, 2nd row buckets, 18" wheels.

 

[Fasttimes]

So far I can't tell, but does a 4x2 vs 4x4 have more or less payload based on what drive?

 

[mwl001]

4x4 appears to add weight rating to the front axle, while HD tow adds some weight rating to the rear axle. However 4x4 reduces payload so that's probably close to a wash when you sort everything out?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wCAOZhHTkUjnc9Ax8fLariL04xFCkyE0w2KwwBm9NyM/edit#gid=0

 

[Knut]

Hi all.

Driving a 2019 Max XLT. I also tow, a family of 2A+3K+2dogs. Nothing else except snacks in the car.
6500 lbs TT with a tongue weight of 800 lbs (CAT scale). My biggest issue is the
Rear axle weight of 4380 lbs.
I was only 80 lbs under.

Max Payload: 1798 lbs
Seats 8, no sunroof, 275/65-R18

 

[mwl001]

Hi all.

Driving a 2019 Max XLT, 4x4. I also tow, a family of 2A+3K+2dogs. Nothing else except snacks in the car.
6500 lbs TT with a tongue weight of 800 lbs (CAT scale). My biggest issue is the
Rear axle weight of 4380 lbs.
I was only 80 lbs under.

Max Payload: 1798 lbs
Seats 8, no sunroof, 275/65-R18

Don't forget your WDH also counts as payload (everything forward of the hitch ball is payload). However I'm guessing you are under max payload with what you mentioned so you're good there. Is your trailer level when attached? It does seem like that's pretty close to ideal tongue weight for a 6500lb trailer.

If your trailer starts level or 1 inch lower at the tongue you will have the best results when adjusting weight distribution (just need a new shank or to adjust the one you have if measurement is off). I have a Camco EAZ LIFT and have no issue getting good distribution even with 600lb bars (my tongue weight and trailer are lighter than yours). I can't comment on other systems of weight distribution but it's been noted here that definitely the Anderson system is focused more on sway and distributes no more than 30% of the tongue weight which is insufficient with SUVs towing near the limit on payload.

Finally - something most people don't realize is that all the payload in your vehicle is subtracted from your starting maximum tow limit, so if you start at 9000lbs and have 1800lbs of payload additional your trailer should weigh no more than 7200lbs.

 

[wakeboarder]

Finally - something most people don't realize is that all the payload in your vehicle is subtracted from your starting maximum tow limit, so if you start at 9000lbs and have 1800lbs of payload additional your trailer should weigh no more than 7200lbs.

I don't think payload directly affects your allowed trailer weight. You just need to come in under the the max trailer weight, max tongue weight, GVWR, GCWR, rear GAWR, and front GAWR.

Also, tongue weight is considered payload even though it originates behind the ball. Thus it gets included in GVWR, and rear GAWR calculations.

Below is a spreadsheet that I just did for my truck that shows how the trailer weight would need to be reduced as I add payload.

 

[mwl001]

Technically yes, tongue weight is payload when the trailer is attached, and the tongue weight can vary depending on how the trailer is loaded. However the hitch is attached to the vehicle and always payload. I think it gets forgotten or assumed to be part of the trailer weight but it’s not.

I think maybe we’re both partially wrong on payload subtracting from tow capacity. You’re right that it doesn’t always count against your max… BUT the combined weight rating is a fixed amount, so basically the heavier the trailer the less payload you are allowed. You can’t add a loaded vehicle and trailer together without exceeding the max combined weight. I’m pretty sure for my Expedition the limit is 15300lbs (6100 vehicle 9200 trailer).

 

[vincentrose]

Well I think I got you all beat on lack of payload, Mine is a 3rd gen, 2014 Limited, Non-EL 4X4, HD tow with 301a Package, just 1457lbs Payload

 

[shane_th_ee]

Well I think I got you all beat on lack of payload, Mine is a 3rd gen, 2014 Limited, Non-EL 4X4, HD tow with 301a Package, just 1457lbs PayloadView attachment 42240

View attachment 42241

This right here is why the 3.5L eco-boost is the right engine choice for a 1/2T SUV. Your GVWR is 7500lbs while wakeboarder's is only 7400lbs. But his payload is still 160lbs greater! All the reviews rant and rave about how powerful GM's 6.2L V8 is and how great it sounds. It does sound great, and I'm sure it's an awesome engine, but it's not helpful when it only comes with a 1440lb payload.

 

[JasonH]

This right here is why the 3.5L eco-boost is the right engine choice for a 1/2T SUV. Your GVWR is 7500lbs while wakeboarder's is only 7400lbs. But his payload is still 160lbs greater! All the reviews rant and rave about how powerful GM's 6.2L V8 is and how great it sounds. It does sound great, and I'm sure it's an awesome engine, but it's not helpful when it only comes with a 1440lb payload.

I don't think the weight difference is as large as you may think. Don't forget, the GM 6.2 is a OHV engine. It doesn't have all the extra hardware, including two turbos, that comes with a OHC design.