Can we talk HD Tow one more time?

[PHD20]

1792lbs on my 2020 XLT, non-Max, 4wd, HD tow, no moonroof, 2nd row buckets, 18" wheels.

 

[Fasttimes]

So far I can't tell, but does a 4x2 vs 4x4 have more or less payload based on what drive?

 

[mwl001]

4x4 appears to add weight rating to the front axle, while HD tow adds some weight rating to the rear axle. However 4x4 reduces payload so that's probably close to a wash when you sort everything out?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wCAOZhHTkUjnc9Ax8fLariL04xFCkyE0w2KwwBm9NyM/edit#gid=0

 

[Knut]

Hi all.

Driving a 2019 Max XLT. I also tow, a family of 2A+3K+2dogs. Nothing else except snacks in the car.
6500 lbs TT with a tongue weight of 800 lbs (CAT scale). My biggest issue is the
Rear axle weight of 4380 lbs.
I was only 80 lbs under.

Max Payload: 1798 lbs
Seats 8, no sunroof, 275/65-R18

 

[mwl001]

Hi all.

Driving a 2019 Max XLT, 4x4. I also tow, a family of 2A+3K+2dogs. Nothing else except snacks in the car.
6500 lbs TT with a tongue weight of 800 lbs (CAT scale). My biggest issue is the
Rear axle weight of 4380 lbs.
I was only 80 lbs under.

Max Payload: 1798 lbs
Seats 8, no sunroof, 275/65-R18

Don't forget your WDH also counts as payload (everything forward of the hitch ball is payload). However I'm guessing you are under max payload with what you mentioned so you're good there. Is your trailer level when attached? It does seem like that's pretty close to ideal tongue weight for a 6500lb trailer.

If your trailer starts level or 1 inch lower at the tongue you will have the best results when adjusting weight distribution (just need a new shank or to adjust the one you have if measurement is off). I have a Camco EAZ LIFT and have no issue getting good distribution even with 600lb bars (my tongue weight and trailer are lighter than yours). I can't comment on other systems of weight distribution but it's been noted here that definitely the Anderson system is focused more on sway and distributes no more than 30% of the tongue weight which is insufficient with SUVs towing near the limit on payload.

Finally - something most people don't realize is that all the payload in your vehicle is subtracted from your starting maximum tow limit, so if you start at 9000lbs and have 1800lbs of payload additional your trailer should weigh no more than 7200lbs.

 

[wakeboarder]

Finally - something most people don't realize is that all the payload in your vehicle is subtracted from your starting maximum tow limit, so if you start at 9000lbs and have 1800lbs of payload additional your trailer should weigh no more than 7200lbs.

I don't think payload directly affects your allowed trailer weight. You just need to come in under the the max trailer weight, max tongue weight, GVWR, GCWR, rear GAWR, and front GAWR.

Also, tongue weight is considered payload even though it originates behind the ball. Thus it gets included in GVWR, and rear GAWR calculations.

Below is a spreadsheet that I just did for my truck that shows how the trailer weight would need to be reduced as I add payload.

 

[mwl001]

Technically yes, tongue weight is payload when the trailer is attached, and the tongue weight can vary depending on how the trailer is loaded. However the hitch is attached to the vehicle and always payload. I think it gets forgotten or assumed to be part of the trailer weight but it’s not.

I think maybe we’re both partially wrong on payload subtracting from tow capacity. You’re right that it doesn’t always count against your max… BUT the combined weight rating is a fixed amount, so basically the heavier the trailer the less payload you are allowed. You can’t add a loaded vehicle and trailer together without exceeding the max combined weight. I’m pretty sure for my Expedition the limit is 15300lbs (6100 vehicle 9200 trailer).

 

[vincentrose]

Well I think I got you all beat on lack of payload, Mine is a 3rd gen, 2014 Limited, Non-EL 4X4, HD tow with 301a Package, just 1457lbs Payload

 

[shane_th_ee]

Well I think I got you all beat on lack of payload, Mine is a 3rd gen, 2014 Limited, Non-EL 4X4, HD tow with 301a Package, just 1457lbs PayloadView attachment 42240

View attachment 42241

This right here is why the 3.5L eco-boost is the right engine choice for a 1/2T SUV. Your GVWR is 7500lbs while wakeboarder's is only 7400lbs. But his payload is still 160lbs greater! All the reviews rant and rave about how powerful GM's 6.2L V8 is and how great it sounds. It does sound great, and I'm sure it's an awesome engine, but it's not helpful when it only comes with a 1440lb payload.

 

[JasonH]

This right here is why the 3.5L eco-boost is the right engine choice for a 1/2T SUV. Your GVWR is 7500lbs while wakeboarder's is only 7400lbs. But his payload is still 160lbs greater! All the reviews rant and rave about how powerful GM's 6.2L V8 is and how great it sounds. It does sound great, and I'm sure it's an awesome engine, but it's not helpful when it only comes with a 1440lb payload.

I don't think the weight difference is as large as you may think. Don't forget, the GM 6.2 is a OHV engine. It doesn't have all the extra hardware, including two turbos, that comes with a OHC design.