Confused on Axle Ratios and Towing Capacity

[nj5008]

I am wanting to get a '15-'17 Expedition, but having a hard time finding reliable information. In an ideal world, I'd love to find a 3.31 or 3.73 with 15,200 GCWR to get the models max towing capacity (9,200 lbs).

The '16 4x4 I am looking at has the HD Trailer Tow Package, but the sticker on the door indicates a 3.15 Axle with max payload of 1,389lbs.
A VIN Decoder on this vehicle indicates a 3.31 Axle, max payload of 1,620 lbs, with a 12,500 GCWR

Which do I believe? The sticker, or the VIN Decoder? Although both report different information, both suggest the max towing capacity is 6,600 lbs.

My goal here is to tow a camper that weighs ~5,500 lbs. I currently drive a 2016 Dodge Durango that is supposed to tow 6,200 lbs, and the camper makes my Durango sag enough where I wanted a better towing vehicle. The Durango is properly equipped. Trucks are not an option based on family and pets.

Do I pass on this '16 and continue looking for something else?

Thanks in advance.
-NJ

 

[JasonH]

For that model year, anything with the limited trim and higher had HD Tow. The door sticker should be accurate, as the VIN doesn't account for certain options. You can also tell it has HD Tow by presence of the trailer brake controller or seven pin connector. I generally recommend an EL for towing, as the longer wheelbase is more stable and will provide more space for belongings even though they'll likely be loaded in the trailer. There just isn't much storage in the short wheelbase if you plan to use the third row.

 

[nj5008]

For that model year, anything with the limited trim and higher had HD Tow. The door sticker should be accurate, as the VIN doesn't account for certain options. You can also tell it has HD Tow by presence of the trailer brake controller or seven pin connector. I generally recommend an EL for towing, as the longer wheelbase is more stable and will provide more space for belongings even though they'll likely be loaded in the trailer. There just isn't much storage in the short wheelbase if you plan to use the third row.

Thanks for the response.
Yes, I can see that the HD Tow Package is standard (this one I am looking at specifically is a Limited). Aside from the brake controller, I went ahead and purchased the Window Sticker to see what else I could find out on the exact model.
When I originally started looking at Expeditions, I guess I made the mistake of assuming that every model with the HD Tow Package would have the max towing capacity (9,200 lbs). I wasn't aware of the different Axle ratios at play, and varying payloads. EL is an option as well. The short wheelbase is the best deal I'm finding at the moment (Used car market is scary overvalued right now).

I guess here's my underlying question/concern (which maybe I didn't realize until now): Does the community think an Expedition with 6,600 towing capacity and 1,389 lb payload, while being equipped with the HD Tow Package, is enough to tow a 5,500 lb travel trailer? As I describe in my OP, my 2016, properly equipped Durango is rated for 6,200 lbs, but sags with the travel trailer connected. I just want to make sure I'm providing a safe traveling environment for my family when we use the travel trailer on long road trips.

Trying to get this all figured out before Spring when we start trailering again.

Thanks again.
-NJ

 

[Langer]

Thanks for the response.
Yes, I can see that the HD Tow Package is standard (this one I am looking at specifically is a Limited). Aside from the brake controller, I went ahead and purchased the Window Sticker to see what else I could find out on the exact model.
When I originally started looking at Expeditions, I guess I made the mistake of assuming that every model with the HD Tow Package would have the max towing capacity (9,200 lbs). I wasn't aware of the different Axle ratios at play, and varying payloads. EL is an option as well. The short wheelbase is the best deal I'm finding at the moment (Used car market is scary overvalued right now).

I guess here's my underlying question/concern (which maybe I didn't realize until now): Does the community think an Expedition with 6,600 towing capacity and 1,389 lb payload, while being equipped with the HD Tow Package, is enough to tow a 5,500 lb travel trailer? As I describe in my OP, my 2016, properly equipped Durango is rated for 6,200 lbs, but sags with the travel trailer connected. I just want to make sure I'm providing a safe traveling environment for my family when we use the travel trailer on long road trips.

Trying to get this all figured out before Spring when we start trailering again.

Thanks again.
-NJ

My understanding, based on this 2017 towing guide, is that with the HD tow package (TBC and 7 pole electric are the most evident with a quick look, but it also includes auxiliary trans cooler and maybe a bigger radiator) you’re good for 9200# with a WDH regardless of axle. Hope this helps

 

[nj5008]

My understanding, based on this 2017 towing guide, is that with the HD tow package (TBC and 7 pole electric are the most evident with a quick look, but it also includes auxiliary trans cooler and maybe a bigger radiator) you’re good for 9200# with a WDH regardless of axle. Hope this helps View attachment 72178

Thanks for the input. I was under the same understanding as you map out, but started to question myself as I did more research. Would be interested in hearing other people’s opinions on this as well.

I do have a WDH that I use with the Durango. The Durango pulls great, I’ve never questioned the power. it just sags more than I’d like.

 

[JasonH]

I wasn't aware of the different Axle ratios at play, and varying payloads. EL is an option as well. The short wheelbase is the best deal I'm finding at the moment (Used car market is scary overvalued right now).

I guess here's my underlying question/concern (which maybe I didn't realize until now): Does the community think an Expedition with 6,600 towing capacity and 1,389 lb payload, while being equipped with the HD Tow Package, is enough to tow a 5,500 lb travel trailer? As I describe in my OP, my 2016, properly equipped Durango is rated for 6,200 lbs, but sags with the travel trailer connected.

The HD Tow packages will all be 3.31 or 3.73, depending on 4x2 or 4x4. Either is fine for towing. I tow 7K with the 3.31 and have no issues keeping up with traffic.

I wouldn't go any higher than a Limited for payload reasons. A sunroof also takes a chunk out of the payload. I can't answer your question as to how much payload is enough because I don't know how you'll be loaded up, and I don't know if your weight is wet or dry. But assume that 10%—or conservatively, 13%—of the camper weight, as well as the hitch weight, should be subtracted from the payload.

If your weights are configured correctly (tongue, payload, and axle) don't worry about the sag. The Expedition doesn't require a weight distribution hitch (WDH) unless over 6,600 lbs, but you should use one anyway because they frequently incorporate anti-sway as well, which you'll definitely want with a large camper. The WDH will take care of the sag.

 

[mr_dave]

I think some of the confusion is due to the "when properly equipped" wording, which basically means "when using a weight distributing hitch." So to get the 9200lb towing capacity you will need both HD tow package + a weight distributing hitch for the trailer. The axle ratio does not change towing capacity. I have HD tow with 3.31 gears and it works just fine, I haven't found myself wanting more gearing.

Regardless I would definitely recommend the HD tow package if you're going to pull any sort of travel trailer since the weight is only part of the equation. The other, probably more important aspect, is the frontal area of the trailer, 60sqft for HD tow vs 36sqft: See pages 15 and 28 - https://www.fleet.ford.com/cmslibs/...eet/towing-guides/Ford_Linc_17RVTTowGuide.pdf

 

[nj5008]

I think some of the confusion is due to the "when properly equipped" wording, which basically means "when using a weight distributing hitch." So to get the 9200lb towing capacity you will need both HD tow package + a weight distributing hitch for the trailer. The axle ratio does not change towing capacity. I have HD tow with 3.31 gears and it works just fine, I haven't found myself wanting more gearing.

Regardless I would definitely recommend the HD tow package if you're going to pull any sort of travel trailer since the weight is only part of the equation. The other, probably more important aspect, is the frontal area of the trailer, 60sqft for HD tow vs 36sqft: See pages 15 and 28 - https://www.fleet.ford.com/cmslibs/...eet/towing-guides/Ford_Linc_17RVTTowGuide.pdf

Does a WDH increase the payload at all, or does it not work like that?

What’s throwing me off is that the Expedition I’m looking at shows a sticker with 1,389 lbs max payload. That seems low for something that has all the bells and whistles that come with the HD tow package.

 

[mr_dave]

Does a WDH increase the payload at all, or does it not work like that?

What’s throwing me off is that the Expedition I’m looking at shows a sticker with 1,389 lbs max payload. That seems low for something that has all the bells and whistles that come with the HD tow package.

No, both a WDH + HD tow package is required to get the 9200lb towing rating. Without either HD tow or a WDH (or both), it's limited to 6600 lbs.

The payload is static and depends on vehicle options. It comes into play for the tongue weight, so payload rating - tongue weight = amount of people and cargo you can carry.

 

[JasonH]

Does a WDH increase the payload at all, or does it not work like that?

What’s throwing me off is that the Expedition I’m looking at shows a sticker with 1,389 lbs max payload. That seems low for something that has all the bells and whistles that come with the HD tow package.

Bells and whistles = more weight and less payload. My EL Limited is at 1474.

 

[Langer]

Does a WDH increase the payload at all, or does it not work like that?

What’s throwing me off is that the Expedition I’m looking at shows a sticker with 1,389 lbs max payload. That seems low for something that has all the bells and whistles that come with the HD tow package.

1528# on my shortie XLT.

 

[Ktm6200]

I am wanting to get a '15-'17 Expedition, but having a hard time finding reliable information. In an ideal world, I'd love to find a 3.31 or 3.73 with 15,200 GCWR to get the models max towing capacity (9,200 lbs).

The '16 4x4 I am looking at has the HD Trailer Tow Package, but the sticker on the door indicates a 3.15 Axle with max payload of 1,389lbs.
A VIN Decoder on this vehicle indicates a 3.31 Axle, max payload of 1,620 lbs, with a 12,500 GCWR

Which do I believe? The sticker, or the VIN Decoder? Although both report different information, both suggest the max towing capacity is 6,600 lbs.

My goal here is to tow a camper that weighs ~5,500 lbs. I currently drive a 2016 Dodge Durango that is supposed to tow 6,200 lbs, and the camper makes my Durango sag enough where I wanted a better towing vehicle. The Durango is properly equipped. Trucks are not an option based on family and pets.

Do I pass on this '16 and continue looking for something else?

Thanks in advance.
-NJ

I have a 2015 EL Max Tow Package 3.73. The truck tows 6,000 pounds without any trouble at all. It's a 4x4 and is rated at 9100 with weight distribution hitch. One thing I have noticed is after about 1500 lbs It needs to be in Manual Mode as to keep the RPM slightly above 2000 around 21, 2200 otherwise I get a strange intermittent shutter that you can feel throughout the truck. Happens when rpm drops below 2000 and appling throttle. Can't tell if its a transmission or Turbo lag issues. If I tow in Manual 5th gear. 2200 rpm around 65 mph no issues. Anyone Else experience this scenario?

 

[chuck s]

Don't know if your experience is typical but I've not experienced your symptoms with either my '07 (5.4 V8) or '17 (3.5 EcoBoost). Nor have I ever found a need to tow in "manual" or keep engine rpms above 2000 rpm for any reason. (Why "above 2000"? 7000 pound (guesstimate) travel trailer. Western Virginia and Pennsylvania mountains don't even need "tow haul" but I sometimes use it -- if I remember.

-- Chuck

 

[JasonH]

I have a 2015 EL Max Tow Package 3.73. The truck tows 6,000 pounds without any trouble at all. It's a 4x4 and is rated at 9100 with weight distribution hitch. One thing I have noticed is after about 1500 lbs It needs to be in Manual Mode as to keep the RPM slightly above 2000 around 21, 2200 otherwise I get a strange intermittent shutter that you can feel throughout the truck. Happens when rpm drops below 2000 and appling throttle. Can't tell if its a transmission or Turbo lag issues. If I tow in Manual 5th gear. 2200 rpm around 65 mph no issues. Anyone Else experience this scenario?

Could it be related to the torque converter locking up?

 

[Ktm6200]

Don't know if your experience is typical but I've not experienced your symptoms with either my '07 (5.4 V8) or '17 (3.5 EcoBoost). Nor have I ever found a need to tow in "manual" or keep engine rpms above 2000 rpm for any reason. (Why "above 2000"? 7000 pound (guesstimate) travel trailer. Western Virginia and Pennsylvania mountains don't even need "tow haul" but I sometimes use it -- if I remember.

Don't know if your experience is typical but I've not experienced your symptoms with either my '07 (5.4 V8) or '17 (3.5 EcoBoost). Nor have I ever found a need to tow in "manual" or keep engine rpms above 2000 rpm for any reason. (Why "above 2000"? 7000 pound (guesstimate) travel trailer. Western Virginia and Pennsylvania mountains don't even need "tow haul" but I sometimes use it -- if I remember.

-- Chuck

Thanks.

 

[mr_dave]

I have a 2015 EL Max Tow Package 3.73. The truck tows 6,000 pounds without any trouble at all. It's a 4x4 and is rated at 9100 with weight distribution hitch. One thing I have noticed is after about 1500 lbs It needs to be in Manual Mode as to keep the RPM slightly above 2000 around 21, 2200 otherwise I get a strange intermittent shutter that you can feel throughout the truck. Happens when rpm drops below 2000 and appling throttle. Can't tell if its a transmission or Turbo lag issues. If I tow in Manual 5th gear. 2200 rpm around 65 mph no issues. Anyone Else experience this scenario?

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[shane_th_ee]

The '16 4x4 I am looking at has the HD Trailer Tow Package, but the sticker on the door indicates a 3.15 Axle with max payload of 1,389lbs.
A VIN Decoder on this vehicle indicates a 3.31 Axle, max payload of 1,620 lbs, with a 12,500 GCWR

Which do I believe? The sticker, or the VIN Decoder? Although both report different information, both suggest the max towing capacity is 6,600 lbs.

My goal here is to tow a camper that weighs ~5,500 lbs. I currently drive a 2016 Dodge Durango that is supposed to tow 6,200 lbs, and the camper makes my Durango sag enough where I wanted a better towing vehicle.

Always go with the sticker. That's required to be accurate by law. A vin decoder is some random dude on the internet. The 1389lb payload is accurate.
Out of curiousity, have you weighed your rig at a CAT scale using the three pass method? (Durango and trailer hitched together normally, Durango and trailer with weight distribution bars disconnected, and just the Durango.) That'll give you both the tongue weight of the trailer and tell you what your weight distribution bars are doing or not doing. You just might find out you've got the wrong bars and/or have them set up incorrectly and be able to stick with the Durango after adjusting your WDH setup.

 

[rowekmr]

I wonder if the OP is comparing two different criteria. Saying the Durango isn’t up to towing his trailer because of rear suspension sag is a measure of rear suspension capacity to “carry” the tongue weight.
The discussion of rear ratios I thought pertain to the capability to “pull” the trailer.

I’ve owned older models with rear air suspension which compensates for rear loads/tongue weights. Did they discontinue the rear air suspension in the more recent models with the HD tow options?

FYI I also towed with a older Aspen which was the Durango’s cousin and although the Hemi engine and transmission was up to the task of towing 5-7k the rear suspension wasn’t. The springs were too soft and like the OP too much sag so I sold it after a year.

 

[WEDGE]

If you want to confirm what you have, post the last 8 digits of your VIN # and I can tell you what ratio you have, HD towing or not etc

 

[chuck s]

Rear suspension sag is easy to fix, just remove the shock absorbers and weld rebar in their place.

Is this a good idea? Of course not but this is what gimmicks like Timbrens and airbags do in a more subtle fashion. None increase the GAWR or put weight on the front (steering) axle or decrease rear axle load. "Towing level" is the result of proper weight distribution, not the goal which the gimmicks will lead you to believe. Timbrens and airbags don't help when towing. A WDH is the proper solution and even those have limits in the amount of weight they can distribute.

-- Chuck