Has anyone had FSA 21N08 reflash done yet?

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2018ExpyPlatinum

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100% the same boat I am in right now. It sucks because because I love so much about it... the power, handling, and fuel economy for its size are so nice in a full size suv
Exactly....I love mine too. Great highway cruiser, we load tons of stuff in it, fast, handles well for a 6000 lb brick, I've had it all over AZ, CA, NM, Utah. No issues, but the rose is off the bloom.
 

Bill Schell

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I had my 2018 Expy cam phasers replaced under warranty at 48k miles. At 53k miles had the 21B10B (titled for cam phaser rattle). My cam phasers did not rattle after replacement. After the 21B10B , I think the engine is programmed to crank a little longer before starting. This is just my theory. The flash also impacted how transmission shifts. I notice that the truck will shudder just like a vehicle with a manual transmission when you have it in too high a gear for the speed you are going. The truck seems to shift up in a quicker sequence than before. I think the truck is operating in city driving a lower rpms (the transmission is up shifting quicker and or at lower mph of the vehicle). I also think my fuel economy has improved with city driving. Another words seems like normal drive mode behaves like a economy drive mode.
My Ford App is showing 21N03 and 21N08 recall notices. Looking at my cam phaser replacement invoice, it shows the work done as warranty work not as a recall. Perhaps this explains why I would have the 21N03 notice.
I had my 2018 Expedition cam phasers and timing chains replaced under warranty, in 2020, at 50K. Purportedly, they are of new design intended to address the common start-up rattle. So far (~9k miles of operation), it has been running just fine with only a little, occasional, rattle at start-up. I just received my Dear Bill letter advising me of the latest Ford engineering department experiment.

Let me see if I have this correct. You want hundreds of thousands of already pissed off Ford customers to schedule appointments by 2/28/22, at understaffed and less than motivated service departments, to have a PCM flash that may take up to "less than one and a half days, however, due to service scheduling requirements, your dealer may need your vehicle for a longer period of time". Additionally, if the experiment dosen't fix your rattle and/or shudder, you can then schedule a follow-up appointment with the now even more overrun and unmotivated service departments to change the settings back to the settings that also have the same base problem.

Anyone else reading this special "customer satisfaction program" offer differently? RU f$*^@!* kidding me? :shakehead:

I plan to discuss this with my dealer and see what they suggest but it is going to take one hell of a sound argument for me to become part of the latest experiment.
 

2018ExpyPlatinum

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I had my 2018 Expedition cam phasers and timing chains replaced under warranty, in 2020, at 50K. Purportedly, they are of new design intended to address the common start-up rattle. So far (~9k miles of operation), it has been running just fine with only a little, occasional, rattle at start-up. I just received my Dear Bill letter advising me of the latest Ford engineering department experiment.

Let me see if I have this correct. You want hundreds of thousands of already pissed off Ford customers to schedule appointments by 2/28/22, at understaffed and less than motivated service departments, to have a PCM flash that may take up to "less than one and a half days, however, due to service scheduling requirements, your dealer may need your vehicle for a longer period of time". Additionally, if the experiment dosen't fix your rattle and/or shudder, you can then schedule a follow-up appointment with the now even more overrun and unmotivated service departments to change the settings back to the settings that also have the same base problem.

Anyone else reading this special "customer satisfaction program" offer differently? RU f$*^@!* kidding me? :shakehead:

I plan to discuss this with my dealer and see what they suggest but it is going to take one hell of a sound argument for me to become part of the latest experiment.
In a word, um, YES. Yes, you have it correct. Though I think it says to allow HALF a day to do the PCM and 1 1/2 days to change the cam phasers.

And what happens when the dealer tells you, you need your phasers fixed? What if you refuse? I need to call my dealer to schedule the PCM and see what they say now.

SO disappointed! ARE YOU LISTENING FORD??????
 

KenK

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Same here. Got my letter and trying to decide if I want them mess with my perfectly running truck or just pass and take my chances. Am not interested in studder, shudder, or rattles.
 

Waldo78

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CAM PHASER REPLACEMENT
I was reluctant to have the dealer tear into my 2018 3.5 Echo
boast. I watched the procedure online, very involved. I did a bit of research on dealers and chose one nearly 100 miles from my location. It was a large dealer with certified techs. I have a local Ford dealer but felt they wouldn't be up to the task as they had a difficult time repairing my mirror, I live in a small town. It has been a couple of weeks now and luckily everything seems to be the same less the nasty noise ,sounded like the engine had no oil in it, at startup.
I have just under 68K so Ford covered 100% of the repair. One thing I should have done is had the dealer replace the water pump with a new one since it was one of the items removed to access the phasers. Probably would have only had to pay for the new part.
All said,I'm glad I had the phasers replaced and am happy with the dealer I chose.
I believe the larger dealer was a good choice because they most likely have engine techs which have performed this repair many times.

Question; My auto start/stop feature hasn't worked for a while now. The battery tested fine. I read up on it a bit with no resolve. Anyone have any ideas?
Best...
 

Going_Going_Gone

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Not knowing how much the pandemic was going to change our lives from what was anticipated, I purchased an eight-year 100K mile extended warranty so I'm going to ask the service manager about forgoing the initial reflash. Mine makes no noise, has minimal miles on the vehicle, oil is changed around every 4,000 miles, and am ready to schedule its third oil change--a whopping 12k miles in nearly three years. BTW, my Auto Start/Stop hasn't worked for at least a year even with using a trickle charger to keep the battery fully charged. I consider having a non-functional start/stop device a "plus."
 

Bill Schell

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While at the Yuma, AZ Ford getting an oil change this past week, I asked about the service notice, that I had recently had the cam phasers, timing chains, etc. replaced, and what I should do. They said it's still recommended to have the updates done to "make sure the problems don't happen again". Really? I was told that the parts used in the R&R job were of "new design" to remedy the shortcomings of the original parts.

Has anyone found details about what the re-programs do? I have not yet started looking into details about this and the service reps did not have anything detailed... just the party line.

To be quite frank, I have no f&%#$*% confidence in Ford anymore and plan to sell/trade my unit in. I'm tired of being part of their customer satisfaction experiment on the EcoBust power plant.
 

BMW2FORD

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I’m in the same position. Phasers done at around 40k and now have 66k and still quite. I had the software update done but now have the shudder at 1100-1300 but wondering do I live with the shudder if this software really protects the phasers? Does the 21N08 take it back to an original level or maybe it still has some changes to protect them but get rid of the shudder? I’ve been mostly doing all my local driving in sport mode to not let the car lug that low of an rpm and shudder.
 

Bill Schell

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I’m in the same position. Phasers done at around 40k and now have 66k and still quite. I had the software update done but now have the shudder at 1100-1300 but wondering do I live with the shudder if this software really protects the phasers? Does the 21N08 take it back to an original level or maybe it still has some changes to protect them but get rid of the shudder? I’ve been mostly doing all my local driving in sport mode to not let the car lug that low of an rpm and shudder.
Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. These guys are simply trying to Band-Aid a crap design. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. Plenty of better engineered options out there.
 

5280tunage

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While at the Yuma, AZ Ford getting an oil change this past week, I asked about the service notice, that I had recently had the cam phasers, timing chains, etc. replaced, and what I should do. They said it's still recommended to have the updates done to "make sure the problems don't happen again". Really? I was told that the parts used in the R&R job were of "new design" to remedy the shortcomings of the original parts.

Has anyone found details about what the re-programs do? I have not yet started looking into details about this and the service reps did not have anything detailed... just the party line.

To be quite frank, I have no f&%#$*% confidence in Ford anymore and plan to sell/trade my unit in. I'm tired of being part of their customer satisfaction experiment on the EcoBust power plant.
To your last statement, I completely agree. However, this is clearly the future of consumerism in the US. Between lean mfg, agile methodologies, and the push to get out every thing starting with a minimally viable product, this will only get worse. I too don't like the idea of test as little as you can, get an MVP out there, and let the consumers test for us is a recipe for disaster. An 80k truck is not the same as the next iPhone that requires a small software update to correct some functional issues. It's everywhere though.
 
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