People are still very stuck in the old "solid rear axle required" mindset

[nate6966]

Dingbat on bookface trying to say we're all 'drinking the koolaid' by thinking the Expedition is a competitor for full size SUVs...

I provided numerous links showing their LEO use and showing the independent tests that prove better towing capabilities.

 

[Artie]

This thread could likely go the ‘no replacement for displacement’ route... have fun.

Seriously tho, just the gain in cargo space is enough a reason to change. The 3rd row in the Ford is an example of what the other manufacturers have to gain or continue to compete against.

 

[JExpedition07]

There are advantages to a solid rear, more wheel articulation for off road

 

[duneslider]

Its a lot more work to get a IRS suspension setup and working well enough to compete with a solid axle all across the board. You will find limitations in some areas. Articulation will be one, IRS won't be able to match it. Towing is super difficult with IRS also, solid axles will feel more planted especially as the weight goes up and things get windy. I have had a couple wind gusts that caught me off guard and there is a very different feel in the Expedition compared to a solid axle. If I was going to be towing ALL the time I would still want a solid axle I think. Since 99% of my driving is not pulling a trailer it is a trade off I am willing to take. I have towed with a sequoia and I feel the expedition does way better. I do think Ford did a really good job on the expedition.

Offroad isn't a big consideration on an expedition, common, you will run into plenty of issues offroad before the IRS is causing you problems. The thing is huge and not intended to be an offroad monster. A similar size SUV with solid axles would perform better in regards to articulation but for cruising dirt roads the expedition absolutely blows me away how smooth it rides offroad. Unless i am doing rock crawling I am picking my expedition over my wrangler every day.

 

[Deadman]

After riding straight rear axle ATV's for many many years and then IRS ATV's came out, it was clear to me that IRS rides like a dream in comparison. Thats all I needed!

 

[nate6966]

Anyone that buys an $80k Expedition planning to do some serious off roading, is a complete idiot.
If you're looking for the beginnings of a rock crawler, then you know enough about fabrication to keep you from starting here.
As far as towing, it's rated for 9k and that's plenty for everything I want to tow.

 

[cmiles97]

Anyone that buys an $80k Expedition planning to do some serious off roading, is a complete idiot.
If you're looking for the beginnings of a rock crawler, then you know enough about fabrication to keep you from starting here.
As far as towing, it's rated for 9k and that's plenty for everything I want to tow.

Although I agree with this, you should see what some people put into Jeep Wranglers to go rock climbing.

I never thought I'd see people pay $80k for a Ford SUV in my lifetime.

 

[Uturn]

This one still had dealer tags and sport performance tires. By his accent, I'd say he was a Ruskie.

 

[Retiredusps]

All I know if my Town Bought Escalade's for the police everyone would raise HELL.I never saw a PD with one.Maybe the Secret Service or FBI. OP doesn't know they get Fleet Deals from Auto Makers.NJ. towns form a Group and purchase x number and get a discount.They all come thru with the same Specs. Dealer adds what each town wants.
Ok I did see one it was a confiscated from Drug Dealer. Plus other weird ones for Undercover Cops!!!!!

 

[nate6966]

Although I agree with this, you should see what some people put into Jeep Wranglers to go rock climbing.

I never thought I'd see people pay $80k for a Ford SUV in my lifetime.

Oh, I know what people put into building off road machines and rock crawlers. I've built a truck to be quick and also off road capable (not single purpose, still streetable). Even keeping it mild enough to stay on the street legally, it still sucked up nearly $20k above the purchase price of only $16k, and that was 20 years ago.
But it doesn't change the fact that anyone with the $60-100k investment into customizations is going to be smart enough to look for the right platform to build upon. They won't pick a behemoth like an Expedition (or a Tahoe/ Suburban) to start with.

 

[shane_th_ee]

But it doesn't change the fact that anyone with the $60-100k investment into customizations is going to be smart enough to look for the right platform to build upon. They won't pick a behemoth like an Expedition (or a Tahoe/ Suburban) to start with.

Or, they might pick a behemoth to start with, but it'll be a Land Cruiser. There's almost as many aftermarket parts available for those as for Wranglers.

 

[Mike Wolfe]

The Military HUMMER is equipped with a very well designed IRS as I recall

 

[Artie]

I don’t plan on rock crawling or getting crazy with any off road driving but I, as many, do need a good mix of cargo/people/towing capacity with 4x4. You do end up with having to make compromises and I’m ok with giving up a solid rear axle, based on my needs. I would like a better approach angle but I guess I got ventilated massaging seats instead.

 

[duneslider]

The Military HUMMER is equipped with a very well designed IRS as I recall

I guess that depends on what you classify as well designed. Almost zero articulation, rides rough, great ground clearance, tows well. Again, it did well for what it was designed to do but "rock crawling" and comfort were not design criteria.

 

[rjdelp7]

I read the Expedition rear axle change, was for more cargo space and to lower the body. This issue was also debated in the Mustang forum. Ford switched them over recently. I believe it was because every 'car magazine' , would mention the solid axle, as a weakness in handling. In reality and owning one with the solid axle, it handles just fine. Most actual Mustang owners(not car testers), never complain about it.

 

[3DogRanch]

Is anyone old enough to remember all the old Explorer roll-overs from defective tires? It seems to me (may be coincidental) that Ford went to IRS after the NTSB report came out about how the Explorer was unstable in the event of a rear tire failure. Lowering the body as rjdelp7 suggests could have been a part of that calculation, or as others have suggested, the auto-industry-media seems to go overboard explaining that the "live axle" was invented for buckboards and horse-drawn carriages and any modern vehicle that uses a live axle is lazy design.

Anyway, I will not setup my Expedition for rock crawling or extreme off-road, but I do expect it to serve as a daily driver and family vacation hauler. When I lived closer to a city center and hurricane threat, it was also to serve as a "bug-out" vehicle for 3 humans and 3 dogs. The Yukon Denali was a close second choice for me, but I would have to buy CPO/Used to get it into a comfortable price range. Having kept my last truck for 12 years, I can justify the depreciation of buying new.

 

[JExpedition07]

The axle generally is better for hauling/towing. Look at our Gross Rear Axle Weight Rating vs any F-150, the IRS cannot handle as much weight as a semi-floating axle. Then go a step higher to a fully floating axle like in the Super Duty F-250 and it’s an eye opener how much weight it can handle vs IRS.

 

[JExpedition07]

For example a few years ago GM switched to IFS (Ind. Front Suspension) on the 2500 HD, Ford said no way and instead redesigned an even stronger solid front axle in 2011 for the F-250, Look at the front axle rating on the GM IFS vs the Super Duty Dana Axle, it becomes clear which one you’d rather put a plow on fast. The axle also has much less point of weakness with that stress.

Yes I like my IRS on the Expedition with the smooth ride and it does well for me, but I’m realistic it’s not the end all.

 

[shane_th_ee]

And yet the 3.73 IRS has a higher RAWR than any of the solid rear axles in the GM BOF SUVs

 

[JExpedition07]

And yet the 3.73 IRS has a higher RAWR than any of the solid rear axles in the GM BOF SUVs

What’s the rear GAWR on a 4th gen? My 3rd gen is 4,250 pounds where comparable year F-150 is 4,800 pounds.