Can we talk HD Tow one more time?

[Expedition Dave]

Front Axle 3550 Rear 4380. GVWR 7720. XLT Max 8 pass, bench seats both rows. Mine is a 2019, not a 2020.

Thanks DUNE! Ok, you are a "MAX."

Gotcha! Makes sense now, since I *should* be the guy who can carry the most with only the FX4 and HD towing package boxes checked.

Am I to guess that a 2wd HD XLT (non-MAX) should be able to carry 1950 lbs +/- ?

 

[SEAN P SCHOEPPNER]

Which Sumo Springs did you order? I'm pulling a 28 foot Tritoon with 300hp outboard. Weighs in at 6200lbs dry. If I don't have fuel (holds 52 gallons) in it there seems to be a lot of tongue weight and I get 2.5-3 squat. It's a 2020 Max with the HD tow. Because it's spring over shock, none of the load lifter kits fit it. Thanks

 

[Rossue]

2019 XLT 4x2 has HD Tow no sunroof 202A 20" wheels bench middle row.

 

[Arthur Doumas]

2019 Max Limited 4x2 no HD tow, pano sunroof, 20" wheels with bench middle row.

 

[BLUWAGN]

Which Sumo Springs did you order? I'm pulling a 28 foot Tritoon with 300hp outboard. Weighs in at 6200lbs dry. If I don't have fuel (holds 52 gallons) in it there seems to be a lot of tongue weight and I get 2.5-3 squat. It's a 2020 Max with the HD tow. Because it's spring over shock, none of the load lifter kits fit it. Thanks

If you're asking me, they're the CSS-1168 units. I'll take a picture this weekend with the boat hooked up now that I have them installed.

 

[Wayne Decker]

Jeez. 2019 Plati, HD tow, captain's 2nd row, pano sunroof and I guess a bunch of bricks somewhere.

1507.

 

[Lou Hamilton]

There is also a Convience package, which I have, that includes the advanced rear cargo management system. I am sure this adds weight to the rear and reduces the payload capacity on some models.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Meeker]

As requested - the table is now in Google Docs. Analyze away!!! And feel free to add your own data or correct errors - public editing enabled.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wCAOZhHTkUjnc9Ax8fLariL04xFCkyE0w2KwwBm9NyM/edit?usp=sharing

Arthur Doumas - you are the very first to have a different Rear GAWR - any idea why?

One last time in text format:

Year Trim  Length 4wd FX4 HDTow PanoSR Rim Sits Payload GVWR FGAWR RGAWR User
2019 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1553    7450 3375  4380  Lou Hamilton
2020 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  8    1482    7450 3375  4380  Eric Mowrer
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1647    7720 3550  4380  byathread
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  8    1629    7720 3550  4380  BLUWAGN
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  No    Yes    22  _    1619    7720 3550  4380  GB19XLT
2019 Platinum 123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1487    7450 3375  4380  Flying68
2020 Platinum 123 Yes No  Yes   ___    22  7    1537    7450 3375  4380  Matthew Marlowe
2018 Platinum 132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1585    7720 3550  4380  Saltwater Soul
2019 XLT      132 No  No  Yes   Yes    20  8    1613    7400 3300  4380  wakeboarder
2018 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   Yes    18  8    1671    7720 3550  4380  shane_th_ee
2019 XLT      132 Yes No  Yes   No     20  8    1767    7720 3550  4380  Joey Smith
2019 XLT      132 Yes No  No    Yes    18  8    1676    7720 3550  4380  DWs-TTEB
2020 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   No     18  7    1905    7720 3550  4380  sanman28
2018 XLT      123 Yes No  Yes   No     18  8    1633    7450 3375  4380  Meeker
2018 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    20  7    1644    7720 3550  4380  Squark
2018 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    20  7    1542    7450 3375  4380  Rx7gslse
2019 Limited  132 No  No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1590    7400 3300  4380  Dice Roll
2019 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   No     18  8    1855    7720 3550  4380  duneslider
2019 XLT      ___ No  No  Yes   No     20  8    1667    7225 3175  4380  Rossue
2019 Limited  132 No  No  No    Yes    20  8    1627    7350 3300  4200  Arthur Doumas
2019 Platinum ___ ___ ___ Yes   Yes    22  7    1507    7450 3375  4380  Wayne Decker

 

[Meeker]

OK, my pivot tables don't seem to provide any illumination. BUT, sorting by payload yields some interesting things.

1. MAX models have higher payload in general
2. FX4 have higher payload
3. Panoramic Sunroof lowers payload
4. And finally, some correlation between trim levels, with Platinum generally lower payload, XLT generally higher payload. But not perfect.

Any other options we should add? Somebody mentioned the cargo management - that would have to be part of the order from the factory though, and I thought it was a dealer option. Happy to be corrected on that.

 

[LovinPSDs]

I find it very interesting that the FX4's have a higher payload...That being said, the FX4 models are in lower trim rigs so I'd be there is more of a trim correlation there. The (3) FX4's are all XLTs

I'd like to compare the same models FX4 vs. just HD-Tow. Seems illogical that adding skid plates increases payload. That extra weight should be dropping the payload numbers down

 

[Arthur Doumas]

As requested - the table is now in Google Docs. Analyze away!!! And feel free to add your own data or correct errors - public editing enabled.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wCAOZhHTkUjnc9Ax8fLariL04xFCkyE0w2KwwBm9NyM/edit?usp=sharing

Arthur Doumas - you are the very first to have a different Rear GAWR - any idea why?

One last time in text format:

Year Trim  Length 4wd FX4 HDTow PanoSR Rim Sits Payload GVWR FGAWR RGAWR User
2019 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1553    7450 3375  4380  Lou Hamilton
2020 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  8    1482    7450 3375  4380  Eric Mowrer
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1647    7720 3550  4380  byathread
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  8    1629    7720 3550  4380  BLUWAGN
2019 Limited  132 Yes No  No    Yes    22  _    1619    7720 3550  4380  GB19XLT
2019 Platinum 123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1487    7450 3375  4380  Flying68
2020 Platinum 123 Yes No  Yes   ___    22  7    1537    7450 3375  4380  Matthew Marlowe
2018 Platinum 132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1585    7720 3550  4380  Saltwater Soul
2019 XLT      132 No  No  Yes   Yes    20  8    1613    7400 3300  4380  wakeboarder
2018 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   Yes    18  8    1671    7720 3550  4380  shane_th_ee
2019 XLT      132 Yes No  Yes   No     20  8    1767    7720 3550  4380  Joey Smith
2019 XLT      132 Yes No  No    Yes    18  8    1676    7720 3550  4380  DWs-TTEB
2020 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   No     18  7    1905    7720 3550  4380  sanman28
2018 XLT      123 Yes No  Yes   No     18  8    1633    7450 3375  4380  Meeker
2018 Limited  132 Yes No  Yes   Yes    20  7    1644    7720 3550  4380  Squark
2018 Limited  123 Yes No  Yes   Yes    20  7    1542    7450 3375  4380  Rx7gslse
2019 Limited  132 No  No  Yes   Yes    22  7    1590    7400 3300  4380  Dice Roll
2019 XLT      132 Yes Yes Yes   No     18  8    1855    7720 3550  4380  duneslider
2019 XLT      ___ No  No  Yes   No     20  8    1667    7225 3175  4380  Rossue
2019 Limited  132 No  No  No    Yes    20  8    1627    7350 3300  4200  Arthur Doumas
2019 Platinum ___ ___ ___ Yes   Yes    22  7    1507    7450 3375  4380  Wayne Decker

Meeker,

It's a mystery to me. Originally I thought that it was because I don't have the HD tow package. Now, that doesn't appear to be the case. Thank you for compiling the data. It's very helpful.

 

[Meeker]

I find it very interesting that the FX4's have a higher payload...That being said, the FX4 models are in lower trim rigs so I'd be there is more of a trim correlation there. The (3) FX4's are all XLTs

I'd like to compare the same models FX4 vs. just HD-Tow. Seems illogical that adding skid plates increases payload. That extra weight should be dropping the payload numbers down

Don't FX4 also have different "off-road" shocks? Maybe the springs are different? And maybe payload isn't all just how far the truck sags under the weight, but also some kind of dynamic behaviour (i.e. maybe weight lower down counts less against payload)? Just throwing out ideas.

 

[flying68]

Don't FX4 also have different "off-road" shocks? Maybe the springs are different? And maybe payload isn't all just how far the truck sags under the weight, but also some kind of dynamic behaviour (i.e. maybe weight lower down counts less against payload)? Just throwing out ideas.

Payload is a pure function of GVWR - Curb Weight. The GVWR only changes on the Expedition by wheel base (max vs short) and 4WD (they have a beefier front axle). So payload is equipment weight related. There seems to be a few different FGAWR and the RGAWR changes with axle code (10, 15, or 3L). We don't have any 10's in the database but I think if you are a short WB 2WD without HD Tow have 10 (3.15), a Max 2WD without HD Tow or any 4WD without HD Tow or FX4 gets 15 (3.31), any HD Tow or FX4 gets 3L (3.73 ELSD).

Once we have enough member data we should be able to provide a range, but right now we don't have enough of any particular configuration (year, trim, option) to make any but generalized conclusions.

 

[wakeboarder]

Don't FX4 also have different "off-road" shocks? Maybe the springs are different? And maybe payload isn't all just how far the truck sags under the weight, but also some kind of dynamic behaviour (i.e. maybe weight lower down counts less against payload)? Just throwing out ideas.

Payload=Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)-Curb Weight You also have to be aware of how you position the weight as to not exceed either axle rating.

Shock, springs, etc. shouldn’t factor into payload besides a changing GVWR.

The GVWR doesn't appear to change on a 4X4 Max if the FX4 option is added or not. GVWR seems to be mainly based on major the major options of 4x4 vs 4x2 and standard vs Max. The heaviest options that I could think of would be skid plates, sunroof, and middle third row seat.

Obviously any aftermarket accessories or larger tires would not be included in the factory payload sticker.

I am baffled why the FX4's would be listed with a higher payload since they have the skid plates.

 

[shane_th_ee]

I am baffled why the FX4's would be listed with a higher payload since they have the skid plates.

That extra 2” of plastic on the air dam is *really* heavy.

 

[shane_th_ee]

The payload I’d really like to see is a Max XL 4x4 with tow package because it loses the 3rd row...

 

[LovinPSDs]

The payload I’d really like to see is a Max XL 4x4 with tow package because it loses the 3rd row...

Why can't I find any information on an XL trimmed Expedition? The 2018, 19 and 2020 brochures don't even include them... Are they some sort of fleet version? Honestly never seen one.

 

[shane_th_ee]

Why can't I find any information on an XL trimmed Expedition? The 2018, 19 and 2020 brochures don't even include them... Are they some sort of fleet version? Honestly never seen one.

Yes, fleet only. Much like the HD Suburbans...

 

[LovinPSDs]

Kinda answered my own question... Found a 2018 XL MAX HD, no 3rd row. Have a message into the dealer for a picture of the sticker!

 

[Lou Hamilton]

OK, my pivot tables don't seem to provide any illumination. BUT, sorting by payload yields some interesting things.

1. MAX models have higher payload in general
2. FX4 have higher payload
3. Panoramic Sunroof lowers payload
4. And finally, some correlation between trim levels, with Platinum generally lower payload, XLT generally higher payload. But not perfect.

Any other options we should add? Somebody mentioned the cargo management - that would have to be part of the order from the factory though, and I thought it was a dealer option. Happy to be corrected on that.

The convenience package on mine is listed as $2070 from the factory and includes:
- Advanced Cargo Manager
- Roof Rail Crossbars
- 2nd row outboard inflatable seatbelts.

I don't know the total weight but would guess we are over 100 pounds of miscellaneous extra parts.

There can be a lot of other options that can impact this, too.

360 degree camera
8" SYNC display
Power running boards versus fixed versus none
What tires are included: Toyo vs. Hankook vs. Michelin vs. other
remote start versus key start
what stereo system -- sub versus no sub
Leather versus cloth seats
Heated versus unheated seats
Heck maybe even LED versus halogen bulbs play an impact.

I might be starting to grasp at straws, but every pound can add or remove payload capacity.