Compression test 01 Navigator

[stamp11127]

The idea is to determine the origin of the leak - more the better since it will be easier to hear.
Hear it in the intake it is an intake valve.
Hear it in the crankcase it is rings or hole in the piston.
Hear it in the tail pipe then it is an exhaust valve.

When you are turning the engine I hope you are using the bolt on the crankshaft/balancer and not the bolt on the cam sprocket. Snap either of those cam bolts off and you will add to a bad day.

 

[Fordgirl01]

The idea is to determine the origin of the leak - more the better since it will be easier to hear.
Hear it in the intake it is an intake valve.
Hear it in the crankcase it is rings or hole in the piston.
Hear it in the tail pipe then it is an exhaust valve.

When you are turning the engine I hope you are using the bolt on the crankshaft/balancer and not the bolt on the cam sprocket. Snap either of those cam bolts off and you will add to a bad day.

Oh no. I thought that was how I was supposed to turn it. I think I turned the wrong bolt. I will have to look again tomorrow. I didn’t hear anything snap and I wasn’t forcing it. I hope I didn’t do what I’m afraid I did.


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[Fordgirl01]

Well I must admit I was pretty discouraged Monday and didn’t even want to touch anything yesterday! So I went to harbor freight after work and bought a compressor instead-not sure why I waited this long to get one. I put a constant air supply to the cylinder this time and there is definitely air coming from the tailpipe.

Also I turned the crankshaft pulley and the camshafts are turning-this is a good sign, right (after I turned the camshaft sprocket a couple times around by mistake last week)?! I turned it to get the piston down and let it start to come back up. I again stuffed maybe 3-4 feet of rope in there and poked it down in. I turned the crankshaft until the piston was at the top but still don’t feel it binding against the rope. Should I feel it stopping the piston or is it subtle enough I won’t really notice? I don’t dare try to take the spring off until I know I have the rope in there right! That valve is hard enough to get to-I don’t want to make even more work for myself by losing it.

Thanks again for sticking with me!!


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[Fordgirl01]

I think I figured out my own question. I bet I am not getting the rope down into the spark plug hole. I think it’s
just wadded up in the deep well before the plug hole. I’ll try again this afternoon.


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[stamp11127]

Use a smaller diameter rope/twine if needed.

 

[TobyU]

Use a long skinny screwdriver or better yet a small wooden long dowel rod to feed it into the cylinder.

 

[Atman246]

Hey girl,don't give up. We haven't given up on you yet. You've made it a lot further then some mechanics I know. Patience is a virtue.

 

[Fordgirl01]

Hey girl,don't give up. We haven't given up on you yet. You've made it a lot further then some mechanics I know. Patience is a virtue.

Thanks for the encouragement. I’m still picking away at it. I was away last weekend so haven’t had a lot of time. I’m still not having luck with the rope trick. I did get it into the plug hole this time-about 12 feet of it. I think my next try I will use different cord. I think the parachute cord is maybe too squishy. Do the pistons on these have some sort of cupped area and maybe that is why I’m not able to feel it bind up? In the meantime, I keep hosing that valve with penetrant hoping it will miraculously pop free.

Yesterday I made an unsettling discovery though. I think I messed something up when I was turning the cam with the bolt on the camshaft and not the crankshaft. Yesterday as I was getting the piston to the top (I had the camera in there to watch it), something seemed off. Originally the lobe was at the top when the piston came up. Now it seems to be about 1/4 of the way off. The lobe is more at 9 or 10:00 instead of 12:00 if that makes sense. So I’m guessing this means I am going to learn how to rip into even more to remedy my mistake?

This is certainly a learning experience!! Like I said-I’ll keep at it of if takes me all year. I rarely have a whole day out there, so I just work at it when I can.


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[Atman246]

So here's another question. When you look at the valves when the cam lobes are not on the follower,do the valves all look at about the same height? The follower is the piece that "fell" out. If they do,then the valve is in the closed position and likely bent or burnt. Either way,the head has to come off. If it's sitting down compared to the others,then you might still be looking at a broken/ bad spring. Can you get a mirror in to have a look? If it is sitting up,you might also try "popping" the valve by tapping on the valve stem. If you can get a piece of wood dowel or something onto the valve stem and tap it with a hammer. Might save you some time.
I think at that point,you'll have to decide if you just want to do the head and all the accompanying parts or maybe consider a used engine. My two cents. Good luck on your mission.

 

[Fordgirl01]

It looks lower than the others so it’s stuck open. Air leaks from the exhaust when I put air in that cylinder. I’ve been soaking it with penetrant and trying to pry and wiggle it around. It’s not in a spot where I can hit the end of it.
I’m going to try the rope trick again and I’m about ready to take the spring off even if I’m not sure the rope is actually bound up against the top. I have a feeling I’m going to have to get into it deeper anyway.


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[Fordgirl01]

FINALLY!! I got the rope to bind up. I’m taking the valve spring off tomorrow to see if I can get the valve freed up.


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[Atman246]

At this point,don't remove the spring and keepers. Get the valve closed and held up. The valve maybe binding which says to me it might be bent. If you have it pushed back up like the others,try putting the air to the cylinder again and see if you have leakage. If no leakage,look at the spring. Is it loose,or tight? If tight,the valve is the issue. Head removal.. If the spring is loose,then it's still just a spring issue and quickly fixable. Keep us posted. Good luck,you're doing an awesome job. You're making me proud. That's all I can say. Just as a side note,i have a 25 year old daughter that I'm trying to teach a little about automotive. She's trying,and that's the most important part. Good luck K. Take care,R.

 

[Atman246]

I just read your earlier post,so it still says to me the spring is the issue. Keep the valve held up and closed, whether with the rope or air. Get a mirror and take a good close look at the spring. Fingers crossed that's what the issue is. Wouldn't that be awesome that the whole issue be a $20 spring? I'm guessing on the cost,but i'm sure you get what i'm saying.

 

[Atman246]

Sorry for my internet not working properly. It makes me repeat myself,or maybe i'm just old and repeat myself anyway.. Baaaahahahaa.

 

[Fordgirl01]

Quick update-no luck freeing up the valve even with the spring off. I’m sick of messing around with no results so I’m going deeper! I know a good machinist so I’ll either get it fixed up or chalk it all up to an excellent learning experience!

I’ve got the lower intake off and I hope to get more of it apart over the weekend.

Wish me luck![emoji1694]



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[Fordgirl01]

At this point,don't remove the spring and keepers. Get the valve closed and held up. The valve maybe binding which says to me it might be bent. If you have it pushed back up like the others,try putting the air to the cylinder again and see if you have leakage. If no leakage,look at the spring. Is it loose,or tight? If tight,the valve is the issue. Head removal.. If the spring is loose,then it's still just a spring issue and quickly fixable. Keep us posted. Good luck,you're doing an awesome job. You're making me proud. That's all I can say. Just as a side note,i have a 25 year old daughter that I'm trying to teach a little about automotive. She's trying,and that's the most important part. Good luck K. Take care,R.

Good for you for taking the time to teach your daughter some very valuable skills! Not only will she have the knowledge you pass on, she will also have the feeling of independence which is priceless in my book!


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[TobyU]

Now go get a coupon from Harbor Freight and buy the $100 maybe 129 if it's not on sale but normally it's $100 engine hoist. Pull out the radiator oh, take off the fan clutch and fan, on both the AC compressor and the power steering pump, remove the alternator but you probably already done, get underneath and try to remove the two bolts on each exhaust pipe but they'll probably snap off so that's no big deal as long as they come off on way or another, remove the inspection plate on the transmission torque converter cover, take the 4-6 bolts out of the torque converter to the flexplate flywheel, unbolt the 6 or 8 bolts going from transmission into engine and remove the starter. Now remove the main wiring harness from front driver side and the quick connectors and pop off any extra heater hoses and vacuum lines in the way let the air out of the front tires, hook the engine hoist is close to the motor as you can with a very short piece of chain and then pull that puppy out and put it on a $40 engine stand. From where you're at now you can have the engine out in under 2 hours. Then, you can easily or at least much more easily pull that head off and go get one at a junkyard or take it to a machine shop and have it fixed. You only have to worry about the timing cover and noting the colored links and the dots on the chains but if you're only removing one head you could just Mark those two cams and keep the change pull tight so nothing else gets Disturbed. Then you would be back in business.

 

[Fordgirl01]

Well I must say the idea of pulling the engine is getting less intimidating by the day!! I am a frequent harbor freight customer-I will check out the engine pickers! Thank you for the info-I remember you suggested I pull it right from the start[emoji51]


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[TobyU]

Always pull the valve cover to check for just a popped off rocker arm first but anytime I find any sort of valve or head issue that can't be fixed on the car I'd rather just pull the engine than ever try to remove a head in the chassis. I just pulled a V10 out of an Excursion a couple of weeks ago to sell it because I'm junking the body of it. I had done that same one before a few years ago when I put that replacement engine in that vehicle so it was still fairly fresh in my mind how everything came apart. Unfortunately the motor mount bolts were super tight and the exhaust bolts all snapped off because they had already rusted up but it came out easier than it did the last time.

 

[Fordgirl01]

I’m still at it. Fan and shroud off, belt and pulleys off, power steering pump is unbolted. I see to get the front engine cover off I need to also take off the RH valve cover. I started to try to get at that tonight as I had no luck getting the bolt on the end of the crank off last night (how in the heck do I hold the pulley still to get the bolt off??). So when I came to what I assume is the PCM connectors (my service manual is for an 04 so the illustrations are a little different), I couldn’t get them apart. I see tabs on them but no matter what I tried to do with the tabs, I can’t get them to come apart. Of course I successfully started to break one (darned old brittle plastic) so I quit.


Any suggestions how I can get these apart without totally ruining them?

TobyU-I still haven’t take the engine removal plunge. I do often consider it but I really don’t have much room to work with. However, I may be buying a place with a bigger garage in the near future, so that will be great if it works out.


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[Fordgirl01]

Duh-I finally noticed the little bolts. They come apart pretty easily after the bolts were loosened!!


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[Atman246]

Hey girl. Been a while since I've been here. Took a trip across the pond to visit the highlands. So now you're to the point of pulling the head. In a navigator,i see that as an exercise in futility. That's going to be a nasty job. At this point,you should weigh the option of replacing the head and all that goes with it,or finding a good used engine and swapping it out completely. In my case,it was cheaper to find a donor truck and replace the complete assembly. If the valve is that stuck,it's probably bent which means it may have made contact with the piston and that could mean even more damage. I know that this is a project and that you're not in a rush,but i'm with Toby on this one. May as well just pull the engine and do the teardown that way. No sense in tearing into it in the vehicle to find that you'll have to pull the engine anyway. Just my two cents. Keep us posted.