Ford quietly redesigned the thermostat in 2022...replace it

[Calidad]

Ok so first drive back home observation. Outside temps are 20 degrees warmer. Transmission temperature was 10 degrees cooler than the trip into the dealer this morning in cooler temperatures.

No fan running after the short climb up to my house like previously. Also the start/stop feature which was oddly mia for the past two months is now back guessing that the temps were just high enough to cause the start stop feature to balk at shutting down at lights.

The tech note says he drove it and head temps matched some other temp 97-103 which doesn’t mean anything given the transmission heat exchanger temps are clearly 10 degrees lower in warmer temperatures, more traffic and going up hill vs this morning which was zero traffic down hill in cooler temperatures trans temp was 212-214 vs after in worse conditions 192-194.

Inconsistent thermostat opening definitely a big factor in higher temps especially under load which I’ll test out again in a few weeks when I’m back hauling stuff

 

[Calidad]

My rough take is a correctly working thermostat 190 degree opening temp. That the transmission heat exchanger temp should loosely follow that especially under low load conditions where transmission isn’t generating much heat. The engine temp doesn’t display till you reach 227-228. So a defective thermostat that isn’t opening up correctly can definitely cause higher than normal temperatures but not be obvious till it starts to be a big enough problem that you spike temperatures over 228

 

[Dice Roll]

I see more than a few posts on here about coolant leaks. Have to wonder if there are dots to connect there to high running temps. The stat upgrade should be on the tip of the tongue of every service advisor.

 

[Calidad]

Here’s what I suspect regarding dealers. I worked at one many yrs ago. We didn’t have this modern “profit” sharing concept where service managers got monthly bonuses based on % over cost of service fees.
Meaning the pay method encourages a healthy dose of filtering out warranty jobs for over priced jobs. The techs are not paid as well. But if a tech gets kick backs on the side from the service manager by backing up the bogus claims then you have exactly the dumb BS I had to negotiate through to get my warranty covered thermostat replaced on my warranty deductible $100.

 

[East-TN]

Here’s what I suspect regarding dealers. I worked at one many yrs ago. We didn’t have this modern “profit” sharing concept where service managers got monthly bonuses based on % over cost of service fees.
Meaning the pay method encourages a healthy dose of filtering out warranty jobs for over priced jobs. The techs are not paid as well. But if a tech gets kick backs on the side from the service manager by backing up the bogus claims then you have exactly the dumb BS I had to negotiate through to get my warranty covered thermostat replaced on my warranty deductible $100.

I agree the Service Manager receiving a monthly bonus for amount of $$ generated could be a poor (shady) motivator. The Service Advisors (SA) trying to always upsale or 'accidentally' putting items on the service invoice is where you have to closely watch the dealerships before/after any service visit. I've had Service Advisors 'accidentally' put down 8-cyclinder oil changes vs 6-cyclinder and try to charge me an extra $30-40 on a previous vehicle I owned. I caught the error and they corrected the price, but how many other times have they done this trick to improve $$ for the day/toward their bonus numbers? How cheesy is it for a dealership to risk customer satisfaction and trust over a mere $30?

I disagree with the thought of the Techs receiving any kind of 'kickback' from the Service Manager. Service Managers are cheap and don't want to give any 'extra' money to the Techs. The SA's are the ones who really are motivated to try shady/quick explanations, and they receive their marching orders from the Manager.

 

[Calidad]

The tech claimed that temps during his drive were 97-103 with the old thermostat which had the truck running hotter than the new 190 temp thermostat. His temperature data must have been under the hood oil cap temperature lol . It was very obvious his write up was just filler to try and make the Service desk seem legit

 

[Dice Roll]

I believe ford dings them for doing too much warranty work. Local guys here loathe doing it. The running board issue I had was obvious, yet took three trips. I have a rattle getting worse and they have ****** around for two trips, including the tires and front end alignment last month where they declared its was fixed. It’s not. Installed new sway bar end links. Nope. Sound is getting worse. I say it’s the ccd strut crapping out. Have said it several times.

Guys you can’t find anything loose. Sound only happens when moving with the weight shift of the truck over bumps allowing the sound to happen. Two techs have driven, including the front end guru. Well, what else moves when those conditions happen? Who has heard that sound before with a bad structure or strut mount? Oh the owner who also has decades of working on cars as a hobby under his belt. Hmm.

 

[Dice Roll]

They also tried to charge a 150 diagnostic fee I had told them was a no go and they agreed not to charge it.

 

[Calidad]

I believe ford dings them for doing too much warranty work. Local guys here loathe doing it. The running board issue I had was obvious, yet took three trips. I have a rattle getting worse and they have ****** around for two trips, including the tires and front end alignment last month where they declared its was fixed. It’s not. Installed new sway bar end links. Nope. Sound is getting worse. I say it’s the ccd strut crapping out. Have said it several times.

Guys you can’t find anything loose. Sound only happens when moving with the weight shift of the truck over bumps allowing the sound to happen. Two techs have driven, including the front end guru. Well, what else moves when those conditions happen? Who has heard that sound before with a bad structure or strut mount? Oh the owner who also has decades of working on cars as a hobby under his belt. Hmm.

Dealers are 3rd party businesses
Warranty work is all based on fixed cost repairs meaning the dealer cannot sell a $600 hr shop job while the tech is doing a $180 hr warranty job.

Some dealers literally book outside contractors for certain days of the week that only do warranty work leaving their shop open for $700 oil changes

 

[5280tunage]

Or $800 thermostat swaps. that's what they wanted to do mine, while it was in the shop already getting a coolant flush. UNREAL

 

[East-TN]

Or $800 thermostat swaps. that's what they wanted to do mine, while it was in the shop already getting a coolant flush. UNREAL

Wow, that's ridiculous! Did they at least put down the crack pipe long enough to tell you this, or was it between puffs?

 

[5280tunage]

Wow, that's ridiculous! Did they at least put down the crack pipe long enough to tell you this, or was it between puffs?

I was floored, I asked the service advisor how that's possible, my entire point was they already had the system mostly drained to do a flush.

 

[Calidad]

More observations
First highway run fully warmed up 50 degree temps the transmission temp stabilized at 183 at 75mph flat highway no climb. Prior to the thermostat it would stabilize in the 199-212 range in the same trip and speeds. Pulling off the highway to an immediate stop
Light ie worse possible situation for the transmission temp it went to 185 for a split second then dropped back to 183. Prior trips the fan would kick on as temp hit 212-214 and the auto stop start would keep the truck running. Now it shuts off at the light.

I’m not sure what temps the auto start/stop balks at shut down but I bet it’s close to that 212 temp where the fan kicks on.

The failure mode of that faulty thermostat design is very gradual and until it triggers a 228 or higher temp on the engine temp I don’t think anyone would realize their transmission is running 10-20 degrees hotter.

In high temp and or load conditions that could definitely be a factor in transmission issues.

As the failure further alters the coolant flow and temp it will obviously impact engine temp enough to trigger the 228+ temp indicator above normal on the dash.

 

[SyndicateZ]

stabilize in the 199-212 range

My tranny temps in the winter (10 F degree weather) would be between 208-215 normal city driving.

 

[Calidad]

Trip back up hill heavier traffic 190-201.
While sitting at lights it creeps up 201. Once moving flat road it starts to drop 198-195. Which would make sense with air flow in 57 degree outside temps. No fan. Fan kicks on around 210-212.

At home 201 temp letting it idle in park took about 4 minutes to see it start dropping 199 etc.

Prior to the thermostat replacement it would be 210-215 at home and I could idle it for 15 minutes with fan running and only see 210-209 temps.

Very curious how the heat exchanger on the transmission is set up. The coolant thermostat definitely affects the trans temperature.

 

[BMW2FORD]

My 2018 runs the same temps with the 180 T stat I installed about a year ago. Plenty of heat even when -10 degrees out. The engines coolant on the hot side (T stat engine side) is circulated through a heat exchanger mounted on the trans which cools the trans fluid. Basically, colder the engine, the colder the coolant through the cooler. As the engine warms up, it also warms the trans fluid as well so sort of dual purpose.

 

[5280tunage]

I'm struggling to find on the forums if the cooler t-stats require changes via forscan or a tune to match. Maybe require isn't the right word but should one of these accompany the cooler t-stat?

 

[LokiWolf]

No. You shouldn't need any change.

 

[apex96]

I'm struggling to find on the forums if the cooler t-stats require changes via forscan or a tune to match. Maybe require isn't the right word but should one of these accompany the cooler t-stat?

Like Loki said, you shouldn't need any programming changes... However if you are tuned and have added performance modifications, it could be advantageous to have your tuner lower the set point at which the high temp fans activate. on the non-HD tow version this appears to be around 210-212 degrees F. I had the person I was working with set the activation temp at 196-198 degrees F. This helps keep trans temps cooler as well.

You don't need to mess with the tuning when just changing thermostats but it could be beneficial depending on your setup.

I want to add that the early year 4th gens had the 195 degree F thermostat and the fans programmed to come on at 210-212 and when ford changed over to a 185 degree F thermostat there may have been some programming changes made as well that I would not be aware of (I have a 2018 that had the hotter thermostat). A good tuner should be able to let you know the current set point and work with you on what a good set point is, based on your use case and current modifications.

 

[5280tunage]

Thanks @LokiWolf and @apex96