bill_b
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Mine still shudders, just SLIGHTLY less frequent than before 
Has anyone had FSA 21N08 reflash done yet?
- Thread starter bill_b
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FlyBry
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scottdm
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I had the 21B10 reflash today. No shudder, but it still has the cam phaser rattle. Dealer ordered the parts to replace the cam phasers and will schedule replacement when the parts arrive. Has anyone been able to confirm if the new parts are an improved design, or will I be dealing with the same issues in another 30K miles?
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bill_b
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it happens when slightly under load around 20-30mph. The trans feels like its in too high of a gear because it drops down to around 1100rpms with a slight bit of throttle, if I increase that it eventually goes away when the vehicle reaches 1500rpms or down shifts. For example the other day I was in 6th gear at 22mph and 1100rpms going up a slight grade... this is with the max tow package (shorter gearing).
The FSA I had performed 2 weeks ago was actually supposed to remedy the original reflash that screwed up my vehicle to begin with (my exp didn't do this prior to the cam phaser reflash 21B10 that did absolutely nothing in terms of remedying the rattle).
I can't confirm the cam phasers are revised, but I can confirm mine still rattles lol. I believe mine is wastegate though at this point.
At these situations, I have roughness felt through the pedals and floor, but I won't classify it as shudder (yet). What you are describing is torque convertor shudder induced by improper calibration.
I am not sure what is wrong with Ford Engineers! the 21N08 was released to fix this problem, yet it doesn't
Ford also decided to extend the warranty on the cam phaser to 70k miles, but after this the owner pays certain percentage up to 90k miles (or 99 not sure). Problem is that some owners with Ford extended warranty (ESP) had to fight to get it replaced under the ESP with only the deductible (see this). Ford reps claimed that since there is an extended warranty issued for this problem, they have to follow that document and not the ESP. Accordingly, even if you have the ESP, prepare to fight to get it repaired under warranty. Not cool at all!
3rd Expyowner123
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I had my 2018 Expy cam phasers replaced under warranty at 48k miles. At 53k miles had the 21B10B (titled for cam phaser rattle). My cam phasers did not rattle after replacement. After the 21B10B , I think the engine is programmed to crank a little longer before starting. This is just my theory. The flash also impacted how transmission shifts. I notice that the truck will shudder just like a vehicle with a manual transmission when you have it in too high a gear for the speed you are going. The truck seems to shift up in a quicker sequence than before. I think the truck is operating in city driving a lower rpms (the transmission is up shifting quicker and or at lower mph of the vehicle). I also think my fuel economy has improved with city driving. Another words seems like normal drive mode behaves like a economy drive mode.
My Ford App is showing 21N03 and 21N08 recall notices. Looking at my cam phaser replacement invoice, it shows the work done as warranty work not as a recall. Perhaps this explains why I would have the 21N03 notice.
My Ford App is showing 21N03 and 21N08 recall notices. Looking at my cam phaser replacement invoice, it shows the work done as warranty work not as a recall. Perhaps this explains why I would have the 21N03 notice.
It is called a customer satisfaction program. I got my "recall notice" notice today for my 19 expy. I have had no issues with anything so far.. but an disappointed with it.. I was expecting more of a truck.. not a soccer mom car.
Today I felt the shudder . Was heavy loaded, in 6th gear, around 25 mph on a slight incline.
I am actually pretty annoyed. I have many other problems with this truck (front shocks, wheel bearings, front diff) that I am seriously thinking to get rid of it.
I am actually pretty annoyed. I have many other problems with this truck (front shocks, wheel bearings, front diff) that I am seriously thinking to get rid of it.
Are you sure its not just relearning your driving style? 21N08 re flashes to factory as built.Mine still shudders, just SLIGHTLY less frequent than before
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bill_b
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No, its actually getting worse. Either the dealership didn't do the reflash (which is on my invoice) OR they just reflashed it incorrectly somehow... I don't understand how either of those things happens.
I have waited roughly 3 weeks now just for it to finish its relearn process, and it's absolutely doing it more frequently than ever this weekend. Calling them today.
I'm getting close to giving up on this damn thing.
Calidad
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So ride quality and handling like Crownvic isn’t trucky enough. I got the HD version so I at least have the truck stuff. But long trips its nice not having the old truck ride and handling qualities
Maybe your next step is 21N03, cam phaser replacement. If you look at the video I posted in other treads the guy actually takes an expedition and shows how it is done. They use a laptop that shows the power balance while driving so they can see and log the shudder ( misfire ) as well as feel it. I just had the 21B10 done, I have noticed a longer crank on cold starts only and the transmission is shifting funny with no shudder. Not sure how long the reprogram is on the trans. I know it took a long time when I bought it, its not my daily driver and I don't put a lot of miles on it. I hope your dealer can figure it out.No, its actually getting worse. Either the dealership didn't do the reflash (which is on my invoice) OR they just reflashed it incorrectly somehow... I don't understand how either of those things happens.
I have waited roughly 3 weeks now just for it to finish its relearn process, and it's absolutely doing it more frequently than ever this weekend. Calling them today.
I'm getting close to giving up on this damn thing.
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bill_b
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I had my camphasers done 6000 miles ago do you think it's possible I need them again?
2018ExpyPlatinum
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Got my letter. Explained it to my wife. She just shook her head in disbelief and said, "I guess you'll be getting rid of it". As I told her....we'll see.
Read the other thread about this letter titled "PCM software recall". The whole thing is disappointing.
Read the other thread about this letter titled "PCM software recall". The whole thing is disappointing.
Dice Roll
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Hmm. So if I don’t take my perfect driving truck in, I lose coverage. If I take it in, it might **** it up.
I interpret the whole prorated repair coverage thing as an admission Ford knows this issue will never go away. If Ford had a fix they truly had faith in, they could easily risk warrantying the repair work unconditionally (and earn a great deal of customer respect /loyalty in the process, I'd imagine).
But, to provide a "fix" they're not willing to stand behind with conviction is to say, "Yeah, we know you'll have ongoing issues with this and we're bailing on you! Tough luck sucka!!!"
That said, I don't really know if cam phasers have a typical anticipated lifespan in line with the prorated repair warranty??? I don't really even understand what all a cam phaser "repair" consists of.
I do know, however, I've had the cam phasers on my '18 Limited replaced once already and it's currently in the shop with talk of replacing them a 2nd time (less than 25k miles on it since leaving the dealer's lot).
But, to provide a "fix" they're not willing to stand behind with conviction is to say, "Yeah, we know you'll have ongoing issues with this and we're bailing on you! Tough luck sucka!!!"
That said, I don't really know if cam phasers have a typical anticipated lifespan in line with the prorated repair warranty??? I don't really even understand what all a cam phaser "repair" consists of.
I do know, however, I've had the cam phasers on my '18 Limited replaced once already and it's currently in the shop with talk of replacing them a 2nd time (less than 25k miles on it since leaving the dealer's lot).
5280tunage
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Not to mention, that on the letter states the the cam phaser noise is just undesirable and doesn't affect the safety, performance, or emissions, but essentially to me that's their copout for not having to do an actual recall. However, that said, I've had the dealer and many folks on this forum state that not getting the phasers replaced when they start rattling will cause more damage over time. To me that's a bold faced lie.
So I too have received the notice and now need to waste my time at the dealer again, getting it reflashed, and potentially causing more issues. Sounds like fun.
I also very much like the part about, if you've already had your cam phasers repaired, please do all of this again to ensure "the correct parts were used". Hey, maybe since so few vehicles are be made right now, there are more than enough phaser parts laying around to get these done quickly, I waited something like 2.5 months for parts over a year ago.
So I too have received the notice and now need to waste my time at the dealer again, getting it reflashed, and potentially causing more issues. Sounds like fun.
I also very much like the part about, if you've already had your cam phasers repaired, please do all of this again to ensure "the correct parts were used". Hey, maybe since so few vehicles are be made right now, there are more than enough phaser parts laying around to get these done quickly, I waited something like 2.5 months for parts over a year ago.
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2018ExpyPlatinum
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@Dice Roll, @mhExped, @5280tunage........exactly my point! Nothing wrong with mine as far as I know, but now I have to schedule this and waste half a day at the dealer. IF I have a shutter, schedule another half day. If I get cam phaser issues, it better be before Jan 2023 or Ford won't cover it. If I do nothing, seems they won't cover it EVER.
But, according to the letter, it's just undesirable noise. No damage will result. Hmm, then why not cover it to 100K miles like others have said. And only cover it once? So, those who have had it done multiple times, what does that say about your "fix"? Nothing like washing your hands of it.
I'll get it the flash done, whether once or twice, but I'm done with this truck, and probably Ford. I had hoped to keep it for another two or three years, but I strongly doubt it at this point.
But, according to the letter, it's just undesirable noise. No damage will result. Hmm, then why not cover it to 100K miles like others have said. And only cover it once? So, those who have had it done multiple times, what does that say about your "fix"? Nothing like washing your hands of it.
I'll get it the flash done, whether once or twice, but I'm done with this truck, and probably Ford. I had hoped to keep it for another two or three years, but I strongly doubt it at this point.
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bill_b
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100% the same boat I am in right now. It sucks because because I love so much about it... the power, handling, and fuel economy for its size are so nice in a full size suv
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