Headers? Yes? No?

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donl

donl

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Maybe not where you are, but there are plenty of guys still ripping it up on "test and tune" nights. You just can't compete without sponsors or deep pockets though.

Understood but to compete in today's equivalent of say B/G or B/MP pretty much limits the shade tree, blue color, DIY racer to "test and tune" night which was the point I was trying to make. Just takes those deep pockets to compete at the same level compared to the '60s and 70's. I used AGC scholarship money to build the 372" stroker for the B/MP car and built the motor in my dorm room.:eek:
 

rjdelp7

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This model Expedition has 4 catalytic converters, single, 2 into 1 and 2 1/4" pipes.. Unless you go with a illegal 'off road' dual set up, headers will not do much. The PCM fuel/air mixture is run off the front O2 sensors. The cooler fast moving exhaust, will affect timing. It may pull timing to compensate for running lean. You will have to buy an expensive tuner, to do it correctly. It is a big expense, for little gain. The 4.6l trition is a work horse, not a high performance Mustang engine. Hot Rodding a 150,000mi engine is just asking for trouble.
 
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donl

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This model Expedition has 4 catalytic converters, single, 2 into 1 and 2 1/4" pipes.. Unless you go with a illegal 'off road' dual set up, headers will not do much. The PCM fuel/air mixture is run off the front O2 sensors. The cooler fast moving exhaust, will affect timing. It may pull timing to compensate for running lean. You will have to buy an expensive tuner, to do it correctly. It is a big expense, for little gain. The 4.6l trition is a work horse, not a high performance Mustang engine. Hot Rodding a 150,000mi engine is just asking for trouble.


Hot rodding?:laughing1: I hardly think so. I assume you read my OP and understand that this is a "restoration" project, not a hot rod project. The intent is to restore the outward and inward appearance from 15 years of wear to a "like new" appearance enhanced by replacing the 20" wheel/tire assembly with a set of 22" Hurst Stunner wheels and Michelin LTX tires. I have always run the LTX tires on this vehicle since new.

While I was at it, I thought why not add a little punch to the 4.6L V8 that is still very tight by adding a tuner, 4.10 gear set, CAI, electric fans, underdrive pulley kit and, yeah, a set of shorty headers. While I agree that the cost/benefit of adding a set of headers to a bone stock motor doesn't add up, I don't agree that adding a set of shorty headers to the above group of modifications won't enhance the package.

Knowing I would very likely take this step with 125K miles on the clock, I replaced the catalytic converters and OEM exhaust system with Magnaflow cats with 3" tubing. I did however replace the Magnaflow muffler with a slightly more restrictive Walker muffler to eliminate the cabin drone from the Magnaflow muffler.

Asking for trouble, au contraire mon frere.:emotions34:I can easily see another 50K trouble free miles from this vehicle that will be driven nearly exclusively in town for at least the next five years and it will be more fun to drive with these relatively mild modifications.
 

rjdelp7

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Hot rodding?:laughing1: I hardly think so. I assume you read my OP and understand that this is a "restoration" project, not a hot rod project. The intent is to restore the outward and inward appearance from 15 years of wear to a "like new" appearance enhanced by replacing the 20" wheel/tire assembly with a set of 22" Hurst Stunner wheels and Michelin LTX tires. I have always run the LTX tires on this vehicle since new.

While I was at it, I thought why not add a little punch to the 4.6L V8 that is still very tight by adding a tuner, 4.10 gear set, CAI, electric fans, underdrive pulley kit and, yeah, a set of shorty headers. While I agree that the cost/benefit of adding a set of headers to a bone stock motor doesn't add up, I don't agree that adding a set of shorty headers to the above group of modifications won't enhance the package.

Knowing I would very likely take this step with 125K miles on the clock, I replaced the catalytic converters and OEM exhaust system with Magnaflow cats with 3" tubing. I did however replace the Magnaflow muffler with a slightly more restrictive Walker muffler to eliminate the cabin drone from the Magnaflow muffler.

Asking for trouble, au contraire mon frere.:emotions34:I can easily see another 50K trouble free miles from this vehicle that will be driven nearly exclusively in town for at least the next five years and it will be more fun to drive with these relatively mild modifications.
What kind of budget do have for this restore? Its worth around $3800 in excellent condition. 150K, 14yrs of driving and wear on all components. Little things like wiper motor, electronics, gear shift, door latches, u joints, half shafts, springs, bushings, weather stripping, door hinges/latches, to name a few. Somebody hits it the insurance will only give you 'book'.
 

ExplorerTom

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I put a full Magnaflow cat back on mine when I could have fixed the exhaust by putting a new $20 clamp on it. I put $500 radiator fans in mine because i was tired of changing $65 fan clutches. I’m considering doing a regear on mine because I suspect the pinion bearing is going out. I sent my fuel injectors out to be cleaned beause I figured it was time. If my engine/transmission go out, i will seriously consider replacing them. My truck has 241,000 miles on it. It’s been totaled from hail already.

Point is, driving any vehicle is not a good financial decision. But fixing up an older truck will be far cheaper than buying new. And what are the actual chances someone will plow into it? Fairly slim in my experience.

And it’s not your money.

I say: heck yes on the headers!
 
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donl

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[QUOTE="rjdelp7]What kind of budget do have for this restore? Its worth around $3800 in excellent condition. 150K, 14yrs of driving and wear on all components. Little things like wiper motor, electronics, gear shift, door latches, u joints, half shafts, springs, bushings, weather stripping, door hinges/latches, to name a few. Somebody hits it the insurance will only give you 'book'.[/QUOTE]

Well, let's see. Most of those "little" things you list above would have been a concern if I was talking about "restoring" a '56 Chevy but not with '03 technology; those little things are truly not issues and should they become issues, all are inexpensive, weekend DIY fixes, so truly do not factor into my decision. Additionally, after nearly 15 years of driving, the only thing that has hit the vehicle was a tree that I backed into which will be addressed as part of the restoration.

Not that it's any of your business but I have budgeted $10K for this project which will include the following which I have confirmed cost to be $10,170 but I do expect some surprises and know that cost could grow to $11K. Still, IMHO, a bargain compared to giving away a perfectly good vehicle as a trade on a new or used vehicle and kicking in the balance which could be anywhere between $35K and $60K depending on what vehicle I choose to replace it with. Considering I will not finance either option, $11K is looking pretty good right now and, besides, I love my truck. I have also considered the "what if" scenario should the motor or transmission fail sometime in the next five years and I will replace them should that happen and should that happen, being an old gear head, "hot rodding" then could come into play.

At the end of the day, we all have different views on our vehicles; you have yours and I have mine. No disrespect intended but don't you think I have considered all the options available? When I ask about headers, I don't need to be lectured on hot rodding, book value, little things breaking, etc. I want to know what others have experienced that have installed headers on their like vehicles, particularly if the cabin noise level increased and, if so, how much. So, if you can answer that question, I would be glad to hear your experience, otherwise, you need not post a reply.

MOTOR WORK
Under Drive Pulley Kit
Fresh Air Intake
Shorty Headers
Tuner/Chip
Electric Fan kit
Miscellaneous parts, i.e., belts, hoses, fuel and water pump, etc.

EXTERIOR
Dent/Scratch Removal
Complete Paint Job
Tires, 22" Michelin LTX
Weathertech Window Deflector
Wheels, 22" X 9.5 Hurst Stunners

INTERI0R
Weathertech Floor Liner
Weathertech Cargo Line
Reupholster Front Seats
Replace Steering Wheel

SUSPENSION
Shocks, Bilsteins

EDIT: Update to cost; just got final pricing on the motor parts and it looks like I can complete this project for $9774; so things are looking up.
 
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rjdelp7

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[QUOTE="rjdelp7]What kind of budget do have for this restore? Its worth around $3800 in excellent condition. 150K, 14yrs of driving and wear on all components. Little things like wiper motor, electronics, gear shift, door latches, u joints, half shafts, springs, bushings, weather stripping, door hinges/latches, to name a few. Somebody hits it the insurance will only give you 'book'.

Well, let's see. Most of those "little" things you list above would have been a concern if I was talking about "restoring" a '56 Chevy but not with '03 technology; those little things are truly not issues and should they become issues, all are inexpensive, weekend DIY fixes, so truly do not factor into my decision. Additionally, after nearly 15 years of driving, the only thing that has hit the vehicle was a tree that I backed into which will be addressed as part of the restoration.

Not that it's any of your business but I have budgeted $10K for this project which will include the following which I have confirmed cost to be $10,170 but I do expect some surprises and know that cost could grow to $11K. Still, IMHO, a bargain compared to giving away a perfectly good vehicle as a trade on a new or used vehicle and kicking in the balance which could be anywhere between $35K and $60K depending on what vehicle I choose to replace it with. Considering I will not finance either option, $11K is looking pretty good right now and, besides, I love my truck. I have also considered the "what if" scenario should the motor or transmission fail sometime in the next five years and I will replace them should that happen and should that happen, being an old gear head, "hot rodding" then could come into play.

At the end of the day, we all have different views on our vehicles; you have yours and I have mine. No disrespect intended but don't you think I have considered all the options available? When I ask about headers, I don't need to be lectured on hot rodding, book value, little things breaking, etc. I want to know what others have experienced that have installed headers on their like vehicles, particularly if the cabin noise level increased and, if so, how much. So, if you can answer that question, I would be glad to hear your experience, otherwise, you need not post a reply.

MOTOR WORK
Under Drive Pulley Kit
Fresh Air Intake
Shorty Headers
Tuner/Chip
Electric Fan kit
Miscellaneous parts, i.e., belts, hoses, fuel and water pump, etc.

EXTERIOR
Dent/Scratch Removal
Complete Paint Job
Tires, 22" Michelin LTX
Weathertech Window Deflector
Wheels, 22" X 9.5 Hurst Stunners

INTERI0R
Weathertech Floor Liner
Weathertech Cargo Line
Reupholster Front Seats
Replace Steering Wheel

SUSPENSION
Shocks, Bilsteins

EDIT: Update to cost; just got final pricing on the motor parts and it looks like I can complete this project for $9774; so things are looking up.[/QUOTE]
You realize you posted on a open 'forum'? I never heard of someone doing a total resto job, on an old SUV. I see by your 'list' it is only rims, paint job and floor mats. The rest of the 'list' are wear and tear items. The pulley kit will give 2-3hp?, A cold air intake can rob power, if used in high temp area, a tuner will cost $350 and force you to use premium. Hey man good luck, nothing personal.
 
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donl

donl

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Well, let's see. Most of those "little" things you list above would have been a concern if I was talking about "restoring" a '56 Chevy but not with '03 technology; those little things are truly not issues and should they become issues, all are inexpensive, weekend DIY fixes, so truly do not factor into my decision. Additionally, after nearly 15 years of driving, the only thing that has hit the vehicle was a tree that I backed into which will be addressed as part of the restoration.

Not that it's any of your business but I have budgeted $10K for this project which will include the following which I have confirmed cost to be $10,170 but I do expect some surprises and know that cost could grow to $11K. Still, IMHO, a bargain compared to giving away a perfectly good vehicle as a trade on a new or used vehicle and kicking in the balance which could be anywhere between $35K and $60K depending on what vehicle I choose to replace it with. Considering I will not finance either option, $11K is looking pretty good right now and, besides, I love my truck. I have also considered the "what if" scenario should the motor or transmission fail sometime in the next five years and I will replace them should that happen and should that happen, being an old gear head, "hot rodding" then could come into play.

At the end of the day, we all have different views on our vehicles; you have yours and I have mine. No disrespect intended but don't you think I have considered all the options available? When I ask about headers, I don't need to be lectured on hot rodding, book value, little things breaking, etc. I want to know what others have experienced that have installed headers on their like vehicles, particularly if the cabin noise level increased and, if so, how much. So, if you can answer that question, I would be glad to hear your experience, otherwise, you need not post a reply.

MOTOR WORK
Under Drive Pulley Kit
Fresh Air Intake
Shorty Headers
Tuner/Chip
Electric Fan kit
Miscellaneous parts, i.e., belts, hoses, fuel and water pump, etc.

EXTERIOR
Dent/Scratch Removal
Complete Paint Job
Tires, 22" Michelin LTX
Weathertech Window Deflector
Wheels, 22" X 9.5 Hurst Stunners

INTERI0R
Weathertech Floor Liner
Weathertech Cargo Line
Reupholster Front Seats
Replace Steering Wheel

SUSPENSION
Shocks, Bilsteins

EDIT: Update to cost; just got final pricing on the motor parts and it looks like I can complete this project for $9774; so things are looking up.

ridelp7 said:
You realize you posted on a open 'forum'? I never heard of someone doing a total resto job, on an old SUV. I see by your 'list' it is only rims, paint job and floor mats. The rest of the 'list' are wear and tear items. The pulley kit will give 2-3hp?, A cold air intake can rob power, if used in high temp area, a tuner will cost $350 and force you to use premium. Hey man good luck, nothing personal.

I posted on an open forum to get whatever replies I could get to the header/noise question; which you apparently don't have an answer for but instead have posted a bunch of dribble of which I am already aware.:Nonono:

I use the term "restoration" rather loosely; you can call it something else if that floats your boat. As I said in my previous posts, the motor modifications are not about gaining HP although I expect to pick up some in the process. It is true that some items are "wear and tear" items but they are not "worn and torn" yet and would also be part of any restoration project. The electric fans clean up the engine compartment; I like that. I could give a shit if I gain HP or not from the pulley kit, so I will take the 2-3 with a grin. We will just have to disagree on the benefit, or not of a CAII, but a four stroke motor is nothing more than a sophisticated air pump and there is a benefit to be had by moving more air through the pump; the headers will help with that. My tuner will cost more than $350 and I will not have to run on premium although I will have that option.

So, as I said in my previous, if you can't answer the header question; go away and bother someone else.:emotions33: Nothing personal.:wave:
 
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rjdelp7

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I posted on an open forum to get whatever replies I could get to the header/noise question; which you apparently don't have an answer for but instead have posted a bunch of dribble of which I am already aware.:Nonono:

I use the term "restoration" rather loosely; you can call it something else if that floats your boat. As I said in my previous posts, the motor modifications are not about gaining HP although I expect to pick up some in the process. It is true that some items are "wear and tear" items but they are not "worn and torn" yet and would also be part of any restoration project. The electric fans clean up the engine compartment; I like that. I could give a shit if I gain HP or not from the pulley kit, so I will take the 2-3 with a grin. We will just have to disagree on the benefit, or not of a CAII, but a four stroke motor is nothing more than a sophisticated air pump and there is a benefit to be had by moving more air through the pump; the headers will help with that. My tuner will cost more than $350 and I will not have to run on premium although I will have that option.

So, as I said in my previous, if you can't answer the header question; go away and bother someone else.:emotions33: Nothing personal.:wave:
Don't waste members time with this stupidity. You don't like peoples opinion and talk $hit. Bye Felisha.
 
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