Headers? Yes? No?

[donl]

[QUOTE="rjdelp7]Don't waste members time with this stupidity. You don't like peoples opinion and talk $hit. Bye Felisha.[/QUOTE]

Firstly, I must point out that I never asked for your or anyone else's opinion on my "resto" plan; I simply asked about headers and cabin noise.

However, you are right, these past exchanges with you have been a waste of time. I should have recognized that with your first post (#12) wherein you were not able to answer the question and basically told me my plan sucked and was a waste of money. So, finally we are in agreement; while I have found the exchanges entertaining, let's not waste any more of the forum member's time with this dribble.

 

[ExplorerTom]

I can’t speak for the Expedition and headers, but when I put a shorty header on my Protege back in the day, it didn’t significantly increase cabin noise. Maybe a little- but that header also replaced a cat, so there is some muffling created from the cat.

Add the header. Add cabin sound insulation to quiet it down regardless if you have a header or not.

 

[donl]

I can’t speak for the Expedition and headers, but when I put a shorty header on my Protege back in the day, it didn’t significantly increase cabin noise. Maybe a little- but that header also replaced a cat, so there is some muffling created from the cat.

Add the header. Add cabin sound insulation to quiet it down regardless if you have a header or not.

Thanks. I really don't expect much additional cabin noise but hearing from others with relative experience is better than making assumptions.

 

[donl]

Well, just wanted to get back with an update on the "restoration" of my 4.6L '03 Expy. Under the hood work is nearly complete; just have the electric fans and under drive pulley left to install; finished by late tomorrow and then off to paint/body. Anything attached to the body will be removed for paint, i.e., head lights, tail lights, luggage rack, side panels, etc. and painted back to the original factory black.

The time consuming work has been the header and ring/pinion install. The Gibson shorty headers were a real PITA, took 14 hours and a call to Gibson. The passenger side would just not fit; Gibson said "it will fit, you just have to work with it", so we kept at it. In the process, we discovered a crushed motor mount on that side which had caused the engine to drop. Once the motor mount was replaced, another PITA, we got the passenger side header on but it was so close to the frame for comfort; I wanted at least 1/4" clear. We shimmed the trans mount up a few millimeters and got the necessary clearance. So, a word of caution on header installs, be prepared for a long slog and, in hindsight, I wouldn't bother had I a do-over. No drama with the 4.10 ring/pinion but time consuming pulling axles, R/R bearings, etc.

Locked in on a set of 22" Foose wheels with Michelin LTX tires; only lost about .6" of sidewall from my current 20" wheels, also with Michelin LTX tires so ride quality shouldn't suffer much. Wheels and tires will go on post paint/body. Then will replace steering wheel and have front driver and passenger seats reupholstered to original.

Have three custom tunes from 5 Star to play with as well. All should be complete by the first week of January. Cost has gone up a bit; spending more on Foose wheels and paint/body than estimated but still a lot cheaper than buying new and I really like the old Expy.

 

[1955moose]

So Don, unless I missed something, are the Gibson headers louder? And how is the power increase. Any drop in power, any increase? along the rpm range? Headers always seem to be a struggle installing. Yours was over the top!

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[ExplorerTom]

What motor mounts did you go with?

 

[donl]

So Don, unless I missed something, are the Gibson headers louder? And how is the power increase. Any drop in power, any increase? along the rpm range? Headers always seem to be a struggle installing. Yours was over the top!

That will have to wait for another update; still have the under drive pulley and electric fans to install. More problems with the headers though I thought we had them licked. They are on and fit but the clearance issues still bother me and now find that the collector flanges are way to far, like 3", from the OEM exhaust flanges. I have talked to Gibson, sent them pictures, etc. and they have agreed that the header is the problem and although the PN is correct, something else must be wrong, like perhaps the header PN marked wrong; jig off; etc. but the Gibson rep claims he has never encountered this problem in his many years with Gibson. Gibson is sending another set of headers under a warranty deposit arrangement which, hopefully, will solve the problem. If not, they have agree to take both sets back and make a full refund. So, we are having fun.

What motor mounts did you go with?

OEM

 

[1955moose]

Well back to the original question you asked, in my post #2, I stated about the problem with oil filter access. In fact, spark plug access on old side spark plug motors was a issue. I've said this at least 5 times or more on the forum, if an aftermarket company like Gibson has a factory Ford 5.4 liter stock exaust manifold sitting right in front of their mug, why oh why can't they copy the bolt pattern, and the original bend/shape to make a drop in fit? No, they think let's reinvent the wheel, round wasn't good enough! On top of that, no one at Gibson tried to mount on say a 2003 Ford Expedition 4.6 motor. This goes on constantly in aftermarket parts. I always cringe when someone asks me what do you think? I want to say don't do it, but they always come back why? It's made to fit, it's supposed to be faster! Etc. Now you know why the trepadation. No, aftermarket parts either fit, or their a struggle. They either improve performance, or they lose power. In some cases it's a wash. In life we always think the grass is greener on the other side.In reality it's a grey area. I've learned in almost 64 years of living, get all the bells and whistles up front, and enjoy it stock. Theirs something said for trial and error, and finding out, leave it alone. That's me, but most of us want it faster, louder, rougher, smoother. It's what makes the world go round!

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[donl]

I don't disagree with the points you make above and I am quite familiar with the sometime drama associated with aftermarket parts as I have been a gear head since I was 12. For me, it's not about louder, rougher, smoother, etc. it was the simple addition of a set of "bolt on" exhaust parts as part of the "package"; you know, while under the hood, why not? I must say that Gibson has stepped up and doing their best to make things right. If the replacement set they are sending doesn't solve the problem, the OEM exhaust manifolds will go back on. As much as I would like to keep headers as part of the package since the tunes are configured around the complete package of parts, headers included, I do not look forward to encountering a similar situation with another manufacturer and, as you point out and I agree, the gain is marginal and not worth the time and money; it's an old Expedition.

 

[1955moose]

You might want to do your homework, check with some speedshops in your area, ask them what's the best fitting headers for say the mustangs 4.6/5.4 engine. What bolts up the easiest? What has best exaust flow? It's frustrating even when your just swapping in a replacement stock part, even they don't fit, or break. Hang in there bubba, you get a finished SUV that you can send us pics of.

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[donl]

You might want to do your homework, check with some speedshops in your area, ask them what's the best fitting headers for say the mustangs 4.6/5.4 engine. What bolts up the easiest? What has best exaust flow? It's frustrating even when your just swapping in a replacement stock part, even they don't fit, or break. Hang in there bubba, you get a finished SUV that you can send us pics of.

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We did some homework; my tech that I rely on has done many header installs on a variety of vehicle but never an older Expy; most have been on Mustangs and Camaros. I also talked to the 5 Star guys and they have seen best results with Gibson headers, that is, in general, not specific to any make or model. Just found out that the Flex A Lite, "vehicle specific, direct fit" fan kit does not fit. The Flex A Lite kit is for an vertical flow but, for some reason, my radiator has a vertical flow. So the saga continues but we are having fun.

 

[ExplorerTom]

My Flex-a-lite mounting brackets needed some modification to fit. Wasn’t too hard.

 

[donl]

My Flex-a-lite mounting brackets needed some modification to fit. Wasn’t too hard.

That's not the problem. My radiator "tanks" are on the sides of the radiator, not the top and bottom so the Flex A Lite kit won't work. Called Flex A Lite and they have confirmed. I need a different kit for this radiator.

 

[1955moose]

Tom just did his fan conversion about 2 months back. Good swap there. Tom went through 2 oem type clutch fans in less than 3 months. He is one to pick the brain of on the fan. Sounds like those Gibson's are the ticket, just gotta tweak it for fit.

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[donl]

Tom just did his fan conversion about 2 months back. Good swap there. Tom went through 2 oem type clutch fans in less than 3 months. He is one to pick the brain of on the fan. Sounds like those Gibson's are the ticket, just gotta tweak it for fit.

Chasing another fan option at the moment. FF Dynamics offers a nice setup, basically built to order so tank location is configured into the kit.

https://ffdynamics.com/products/expedition

 

[ExplorerTom]

That's not the problem. My radiator "tanks" are on the sides of the radiator, not the top and bottom so the Flex A Lite kit won't work. Called Flex A Lite and they have confirmed. I need a different kit for this radiator.

Sounds like they sent you the wrong kit. They sent me 1/2 of the right kit. I was able to make the other half work.

 

[donl]

Sounds like they sent you the wrong kit. They sent me 1/2 of the right kit. I was able to make the other half work.

Thanks Tom. I need to clear up my previous as my tech and I have been texting back and forth and I thought something was "lost in translation". I got out of the office early and stopped by the shop and saw the problem. First, the fan kit is simply just too big, as in wide; bigger than the radiator and makes contact with the ABS module on one side and other hardware on the other. My tanks are top and bottom, I misunderstood what Carlos was saying in his text.

I would very much appreciate any pictures, part numbers, and/or install modifications you had to make to complete your install. I looked in more detail at the FF Dynamics kits and hardware and like the looks of the stuff but don't like the method of attachment, i.e., through the radiator and secured on the front with heavy duty zip ties; I want mechanical attachments. We are also looking at OEM electric fan setups for later Expys as an option.

 

[ExplorerTom]

Here's the driver side (the way it should look):


Here's the passenger side:


The left side of the bracket that attaches to the fan shroud is attached normally. The right side I had to attach through the plastic of the shroud. I used a nyloc nut on the inside to keep it from backing out. And then the outer bracket I had to make a clearance hole for the head of that other bolt.

 

[ExplorerTom]

My tanks are top and bottom, I misunderstood what Carlos was saying in his text.

Really? I've had more than my share of experience with Expedition radiators. All are side end tanks. I haven't seen a top end tank for a very long time.

We are also looking at OEM electric fan setups for later Expys as an option.

I've heard the Raptor fans work too.

 

[donl]

Thanks for the photos Tom. You will just have to trust me on the tanks; they are top/bottom.

There were some other pics on my phone and it appears that your radiator might be after market? No way will the Flex A Lite kit work for my application; regardless of whether or not brackets would work, it just won't fit in the space.

Thanks for the tip on the Raptor fans, we will check them out or maybe have to fine a "universal" kit, not sure of the solution but I want electric fans.